11 Feb 2014: Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion

From: "Barry Salter" <bsalter@ukvoting.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:14:33 +0000
Subject: AMENDED RESULT - Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion FAILS 5:49
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.net.news.management,uk.net.news.moderation


                        RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES

Summary: Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion

Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion FAILS 5:49

NO beat YES by a majority of 44 votes. For the proposal to succeed,
there must be 12 more YES votes than NO votes. Accordingly, the proposal

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Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, 5th February 2014.

Proponent : Stephen Thomas Cole <steve.t.cole (at) gmail.com>
Votetaker : Barry Salter <bsalter (at) ukvoting.org.uk>

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These results have been posted to the following newsgroups:


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The Results:

The results follow below in the following order:

1) Summary of Mail Received During the Voting Period
2) Results
3) Individual Vote Details
4) Votetakers Comments
5) Voting and Appeal Guidelines
6) Rationale
7) Newsgroups Line
8) Proposal

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 60 messages were received to the Ballot Request Address, of which:

 59 were valid Ballot Requests
  1 was a test message sent by the votetaker
 58 messages were received to the Voting Address, of which:

 54 were valid and counted votes
  1 was superseded by a later vote from the same voter
  1 was deemed invalid due to the acknowledgement bouncing
  1 was an abstention
  1 was a test message sent by the votetaker

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Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion

    YES :  5 votes
     NO : 49 votes
ABSTAIN :  1 vote
  Total : 55 votes

NO beat YES by a majority of 44 votes. For the proposal to succeed,
there must be 12 more YES votes than NO votes. Accordingly, the proposal

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Voted Yes - 5 votes
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jgaines_newsid -at- yahoo'co'uk                              Jeff Gaines
huge -at- huge'org'uk                                               Huge
steve't'cole -at- gmail'com                          Stephen Thomas Cole
nospam -at- thenyes'org'uk                                    Graham Nye
damerell -at- chiark'greenend'org'uk                      David Damerell

Voted No - 49 votes
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usenet'jan2013 -at- adslpipe'co'uk                            Andy Burns
matt -at- chronos'org'uk                                         Chronos
crn -at- netunix'com                              crn@nospam.netunix.com
anoneyemouse -at- eml'cc                                 A. non Eyemouse
nick -at- leverton'org                                     Nick Leverton

paulcummins -at- tiscali'co'uk                              Paul Cummins
peter -at- wpp'ltd'uk                                        Peter Parry
ijackson -at- chiark'greenend'org'uk                         Ian Jackson
dg -at- dickgaughan'co'uk                                   Dick Gaughan
matthew -at- debian'org                                   Matthew Vernon

mark -at- good-stuff'co'uk                                   Mark Goodge
clive -at- evil-c'co'uk                                     Clive George
xunnd -at- mollymockford'me'uk                            Molly Mockford
bdm -at- fenrir'org'uk                                    Brian Morrison
usenet05 -at- drabble'me'uk                               Graham Drabble

home -at- fairfieldtowers'net                                       Pedt
vicmeld -at- gmail'com                                    Victor Meldrew
owend -at- chiark'greenend'org'uk                              Owen Dunn
snipe -at- notforspam'fsnet'co'uk                                  Sn!pe
voting -at- ffoil'org'uk                                          Adrian

owenrees -at- fastmail'fm                                      Owen Rees
Brian -at- bjforster'force9'co'uk                                  Brian
paul -at- giverin'co'uk                                     Paul Giverin
dave -at- clues'com                                        Dave Williams
t_e_n_e_s_u -at- hotmail'com                                John the R-T

Aero'Spike -at- mail'com                                           Spike
saramerriman -at- blueyonder'co'uk                         Sara Merriman
mike -at- urgle'com                                         Mike Bristow
g7iii -at- g7iii'net                                   Iain Young, G7III
mike -at- tauzero'co'uk                                     Mike Fleming

alex -at- ap-consulting'co'uk                                Alex Potter
armb -at- chiark'greenend'org'uk                           Alan Braggins
news -at- sarlet'com                                      Roger Merriman
chl -at- clerew'man'ac'uk                                Charles Lindsey
katstuff -at- the-kat'org                                            kat

m'r'causer -at- googlemail'com                               Mike Causer
rjk -at- terraraq'org'uk                              Richard Kettlewell
roger -at- hayter'org                                       Roger Hayter
tony -at- darkstorm'co'uk                                           Tony
charlie -at- peartreegreen'org                           Charlie Ivermee

{R} -at- semolina'org                                                {R}
mail -at- peterduncanson'net                             Peter Duncanson
nospam -at- ntlworld'com                                      Rob Morley
alan -at- darkroom'plus'com                                        A.Lee
news -at- timjackson'plus'com                                Tim Jackson

tcnw81 -at- tarrcity'demon'co'uk                                      Wm
not-for-mail -at- ahjg'co'uk                                Anthony Gold
llymru -at- gmail'com                                             Llymru
{paul} -at- watman'clara'co'uk                                      paul

Abstained - 1 vote
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ian'clifton -at- chem'ox'ac'uk                               Ian Clifton

Acknowledgement Bounced - 1 vote
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mike -at- jasper'org'uk                                   Mike Tomlinson

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Votetakers Comments:

Overall a relatively simple vote to run, with the usual peaks in voting
at the point the CFVs were posted, tailing off around the half way point
and again towards the end of the voting period.

One vote was rejected due to the acknowledgement, and a subsequent query
from the votetaker, bouncing. The resulting omission of this vote has
not materially affected the result.

As usual, the majority of the submitted votes were easily verified due
to the voters being well known to the votetaker.

Please accept my apologies for the incorrect totals in the original
results post. I had managed to overlook the superseded vote when adding
the mail analysis to the post, meaning the two totals didn't match.

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This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs on
behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties. The rules under
which this vote is taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or
can be found at the following URL: <http://www.usenet.org.uk/voting.html>

The UKVoting web pages can be found at <http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/>

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to
uk.net.news.announce.  Allegations of irregularity should be sent to
control (at) usenet (dot) org (dot) uk.

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The uk.net.news.* hierarchy consists of 4 newsgroups; .announce, .config,
.management and .moderation. Each has a particular and very specific remit.
.announce is a moderated group for uk.* related announcements, such as
RFDs, CFVs and so on, .config is for the discussion of creation, deletion
or renaming of newsgroups, .management is for the discussion of the
management of uk.*, the Committee and the guidelines which govern the
hierarchy, and .moderation is for discussion relating to newsgroup

Each of these groups is quite clearly chartered and the scope of "on topic"
material that each group should receive is limited. Nevertheless, there is
often much "thread drift" that takes place in the discussions within each
group (excluding .announce, which is moderated and receives only official
postings) and topics often become only tenuously linked to the group
subject matter, at best, or entirely off topic, at worst. The best that can
be achieved to resolve this currently is a gentle (or strong, depending on
the circumstance...) reminder that the discussion is off topic and should
be ceased. However, if the off topic discussion is interesting and has
taken on a life of its own, this only very rarely is effective and, as
there are no uk.net.news.* related alternate forums to guide the discussion
to, the off topic and potentially disruptive posting largely continues, to
the annoyance of many users.

Therefore, I propose that we create: uk.net.news.discussion.

The purpose of this group would be to host wide ranging and broad
discussion relating to the UK Usenet hierarchy in particular and Usenet in

Discussions that have veered off topic for any of the uk.net.news.*
newsgroups could be directed here using the "follow up" header and the
conversation could continue without derailing the parent thread or causing
undue annoyance to those who are invested enough in the hierarchy to
monitor the management groups. Clearly, should there exist a newsgroup for
which the discussion is on-topic, uk.radio.amateur for radio amateur banter
for example, then such can and should be diverted there rather than
unn.discussion. However, the intention is that .discussion be tolerant of a
broad range of conversation, with an emphasis towards hierarchy and Usenet
related matters.

Not only that, but .discussion could serve as a forum for users, new and
old, to ask questions relating to the Usenet and uk.* experience, a
function that is not within the chartered remit of any of the existing
uk.net.news.* management newsgroups.

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uk.net.news.discussion	General discussion of the uk.* hierarchy

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CHARTER: uk.net.news.discussion

This group is for the discussion of general matters relating to the UK
Usenet hierarchy not covered by the other uk.net.news.* newsgroups. Users
looking for information on how to fully enjoy the Usenet experience are
encouraged to post their questions here.

This group is intended to have a broad scope, with discussion even only
loosely relating to Usenet being perfectly acceptable. Threads that have
drifted away from the relevant topics of discussion in the other
uk.net.news.* groups may be diverted here by "Follow-Up To". As such,
topics of conversation may flow freely although it is requested that
discussion wholly not relating to uk.* or Usenet in general be directed to
a more appropriate group. A civil atmosphere is encouraged.


Advertising is forbidden.

Binaries & Formatting

Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are
forbidden. Please use web or FTP links to share such.

Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used where authentication is
important and should be as short as possible.

Posts must only be submitted as plain text.

Warning. Anyone posting contrary to this charter may be reported to their
"postmaster" and/or Service Provider.


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