Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!matrix.darkstorm.co.uk!.POSTED!matrix.darkstorm.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Barry Salter" Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.net.news.management,uk.net.news.moderation Subject: AMENDED RESULT - Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion FAILS 5:49 Followup-To: uk.net.news.config Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:14:33 +0000 Organization: just another hole in the fabric of the internet Lines: 293 Sender: Tony Evans as Control Approved: Tony Evans as Control Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 5uHAjGAa5BqDCwyu0K7LyDhVkSSpK2OOU1YR1VQ5W18= X-Trace: matrix.darkstorm.co.uk lFjMxWHvKYITeF6T4QOC0wbqMiB+l8rFdBasfRFw4BA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@matrix.darkstorm.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:14:56 +0000 (UTC) X-User-ID: /Oc+9qdP6JZGyjylqG+Ij1qtwM+0u5Hcl6DIoCuUYEo= Xref: news.eternal-september.org uk.net.news.announce:448 uk.net.news.config:24439 uk.net.news.management:10685 uk.net.news.moderation:32031 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES Summary: Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion FAILS 5:49 NO beat YES by a majority of 44 votes. For the proposal to succeed, there must be 12 more YES votes than NO votes. Accordingly, the proposal FAILS. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, 5th February 2014. Proponent : Stephen Thomas Cole Votetaker : Barry Salter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Distribution: These results have been posted to the following newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce uk.net.news.config uk.net.news.management uk.net.news.moderation - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Results: The results follow below in the following order: 1) Summary of Mail Received During the Voting Period 2) Results 3) Individual Vote Details 4) Votetakers Comments 5) Voting and Appeal Guidelines 6) Rationale 7) Newsgroups Line 8) Proposal - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUMMARY OF MAIL RECEIVED DURING THE VOTING PERIOD 60 messages were received to the Ballot Request Address, of which: 59 were valid Ballot Requests 1 was a test message sent by the votetaker 58 messages were received to the Voting Address, of which: 54 were valid and counted votes 1 was superseded by a later vote from the same voter 1 was deemed invalid due to the acknowledgement bouncing 1 was an abstention 1 was a test message sent by the votetaker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RESULTS: Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.news.discussion YES : 5 votes NO : 49 votes ABSTAIN : 1 vote Total : 55 votes NO beat YES by a majority of 44 votes. For the proposal to succeed, there must be 12 more YES votes than NO votes. Accordingly, the proposal FAILS. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INDIVIDUAL VOTE DETAILS Voted Yes - 5 votes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ jgaines_newsid -at- yahoo'co'uk Jeff Gaines huge -at- huge'org'uk Huge steve't'cole -at- gmail'com Stephen Thomas Cole nospam -at- thenyes'org'uk Graham Nye damerell -at- chiark'greenend'org'uk David Damerell Voted No - 49 votes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ usenet'jan2013 -at- adslpipe'co'uk Andy Burns matt -at- chronos'org'uk Chronos crn -at- netunix'com crn@nospam.netunix.com anoneyemouse -at- eml'cc A. non Eyemouse nick -at- leverton'org Nick Leverton paulcummins -at- tiscali'co'uk Paul Cummins peter -at- wpp'ltd'uk Peter Parry ijackson -at- chiark'greenend'org'uk Ian Jackson dg -at- dickgaughan'co'uk Dick Gaughan matthew -at- debian'org Matthew Vernon mark -at- good-stuff'co'uk Mark Goodge clive -at- evil-c'co'uk Clive George xunnd -at- mollymockford'me'uk Molly Mockford bdm -at- fenrir'org'uk Brian Morrison usenet05 -at- drabble'me'uk Graham Drabble home -at- fairfieldtowers'net Pedt vicmeld -at- gmail'com Victor Meldrew owend -at- chiark'greenend'org'uk Owen Dunn snipe -at- notforspam'fsnet'co'uk Sn!pe voting -at- ffoil'org'uk Adrian owenrees -at- fastmail'fm Owen Rees Brian -at- bjforster'force9'co'uk Brian paul -at- giverin'co'uk Paul Giverin dave -at- clues'com Dave Williams t_e_n_e_s_u -at- hotmail'com John the R-T Aero'Spike -at- mail'com Spike saramerriman -at- blueyonder'co'uk Sara Merriman mike -at- urgle'com Mike Bristow g7iii -at- g7iii'net Iain Young, G7III mike -at- tauzero'co'uk Mike Fleming alex -at- ap-consulting'co'uk Alex Potter armb -at- chiark'greenend'org'uk Alan Braggins news -at- sarlet'com Roger Merriman chl -at- clerew'man'ac'uk Charles Lindsey katstuff -at- the-kat'org kat m'r'causer -at- googlemail'com Mike Causer rjk -at- terraraq'org'uk Richard Kettlewell roger -at- hayter'org Roger Hayter tony -at- darkstorm'co'uk Tony charlie -at- peartreegreen'org Charlie Ivermee {R} -at- semolina'org {R} mail -at- peterduncanson'net Peter Duncanson nospam -at- ntlworld'com Rob Morley alan -at- darkroom'plus'com A.Lee news -at- timjackson'plus'com Tim Jackson tcnw81 -at- tarrcity'demon'co'uk Wm not-for-mail -at- ahjg'co'uk Anthony Gold llymru -at- gmail'com Llymru {paul} -at- watman'clara'co'uk paul Abstained - 1 vote - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ian'clifton -at- chem'ox'ac'uk Ian Clifton Acknowledgement Bounced - 1 vote - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ mike -at- jasper'org'uk Mike Tomlinson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Votetakers Comments: Overall a relatively simple vote to run, with the usual peaks in voting at the point the CFVs were posted, tailing off around the half way point and again towards the end of the voting period. One vote was rejected due to the acknowledgement, and a subsequent query from the votetaker, bouncing. The resulting omission of this vote has not materially affected the result. As usual, the majority of the submitted votes were easily verified due to the voters being well known to the votetaker. Please accept my apologies for the incorrect totals in the original results post. I had managed to overlook the superseded vote when adding the mail analysis to the post, meaning the two totals didn't match. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting. UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs on behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties. The rules under which this vote is taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: The UKVoting web pages can be found at There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control (at) usenet (dot) org (dot) uk. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RATIONALE: The uk.net.news.* hierarchy consists of 4 newsgroups; .announce, .config, .management and .moderation. Each has a particular and very specific remit. .announce is a moderated group for uk.* related announcements, such as RFDs, CFVs and so on, .config is for the discussion of creation, deletion or renaming of newsgroups, .management is for the discussion of the management of uk.*, the Committee and the guidelines which govern the hierarchy, and .moderation is for discussion relating to newsgroup moderation. Each of these groups is quite clearly chartered and the scope of "on topic" material that each group should receive is limited. Nevertheless, there is often much "thread drift" that takes place in the discussions within each group (excluding .announce, which is moderated and receives only official postings) and topics often become only tenuously linked to the group subject matter, at best, or entirely off topic, at worst. The best that can be achieved to resolve this currently is a gentle (or strong, depending on the circumstance...) reminder that the discussion is off topic and should be ceased. However, if the off topic discussion is interesting and has taken on a life of its own, this only very rarely is effective and, as there are no uk.net.news.* related alternate forums to guide the discussion to, the off topic and potentially disruptive posting largely continues, to the annoyance of many users. Therefore, I propose that we create: uk.net.news.discussion. The purpose of this group would be to host wide ranging and broad discussion relating to the UK Usenet hierarchy in particular and Usenet in general. Discussions that have veered off topic for any of the uk.net.news.* newsgroups could be directed here using the "follow up" header and the conversation could continue without derailing the parent thread or causing undue annoyance to those who are invested enough in the hierarchy to monitor the management groups. Clearly, should there exist a newsgroup for which the discussion is on-topic, uk.radio.amateur for radio amateur banter for example, then such can and should be diverted there rather than unn.discussion. However, the intention is that .discussion be tolerant of a broad range of conversation, with an emphasis towards hierarchy and Usenet related matters. Not only that, but .discussion could serve as a forum for users, new and old, to ask questions relating to the Usenet and uk.* experience, a function that is not within the chartered remit of any of the existing uk.net.news.* management newsgroups. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NEWSGROUPS LINE uk.net.news.discussion General discussion of the uk.* hierarchy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ CHARTER: uk.net.news.discussion This group is for the discussion of general matters relating to the UK Usenet hierarchy not covered by the other uk.net.news.* newsgroups. Users looking for information on how to fully enjoy the Usenet experience are encouraged to post their questions here. This group is intended to have a broad scope, with discussion even only loosely relating to Usenet being perfectly acceptable. Threads that have drifted away from the relevant topics of discussion in the other uk.net.news.* groups may be diverted here by "Follow-Up To". As such, topics of conversation may flow freely although it is requested that discussion wholly not relating to uk.* or Usenet in general be directed to a more appropriate group. A civil atmosphere is encouraged. Advertising Advertising is forbidden. Binaries & Formatting Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are forbidden. Please use web or FTP links to share such. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used where authentication is important and should be as short as possible. Posts must only be submitted as plain text. Warning. Anyone posting contrary to this charter may be reported to their "postmaster" and/or Service Provider. 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