09 Mar 2005: Microsoft Windows Group Overhaul

From: Alex Holden <msw-vote@alex-holden.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:05:06 +0000
Subject: RESULT: Microsoft Windows Group Overhaul; uk.comp.os.ms-windows PASSES
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.comp.misc,uk.comp.os.win95,uk.comp.os.win2000


RESULT of Microsoft Windows Group Overhaul CFV

Summary: Removal of uk.comp.os.win95 and uk.comp.os.win2000 &
         Creation of uk.comp.os.ms-windows (Option A) PASSES
         by Condorcet vote

Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, Saturday 26th February 2005.

   Barry Salter <barry (at) southie (dot) me (dot) uk>
   Alex Holden <msw-vote@alex-holden.org.uk>
   Pedt Scragg <xmsw@pedt.demon.co.uk>




The full results follow below in the following order:

1) Information on the ballot
2) Results
3) Individual Vote Details
4) Votetaker's Comments
5) Voting and Appeal Information
6) Rationale and Proposal (from the CFV)



Voters were aked to vote on the following question:

Remove uk.comp.os.win2000 and uk.comp.os.win95 AND create a new
replacement newsgroup with the name as per one of the options

The options you can choose from are:

Option A: remove old groups and create uk.comp.os.ms-windows
Option B: remove old groups and create uk.comp.os.windows
Option C: remove old groups and create uk.comp.os.msft-windows
Option D: remove old groups and create uk.comp.os.microsoft.windows
Option E: Re Open The Discussion
Option F: Status Quo (Keep Things As They Are)



There were 51 emails received and archived by the UKVoting server to
the vote address, comprising of:

 49 Valid and counted votes
  1 Votes subsequently altered by the voter
  1 Test mail by the votetaker

A full breakdown of the votes received appears later in this document.

Multi-option group creation votes in the uk.* hierarchy are decided by
a two-stage procedure. All options are first compared with votes for
the status quo (Keep things as they are,) and any which are not
preferred to SQ by the required margin of 12 votes are eliminated.
The remaining options, if any, are then evaluated by the Condorcet

STAGE 1 - Options compared to Status Quo

Option A beat Option F by 42 votes to 4  (+38)
Option B beat Option F by 38 votes to 9  (+29)
Option C beat Option F by 23 votes to 19 (+4)
Option D beat Option F by 37 votes to 8  (+29)
Option E beat Option F by 33 votes to 9  (+24)

For an option to progress to the second stage of the count, it must
beat Status Quo by 12 votes or more. Only Option C failed to make
the required margin, and therefore Option C is eliminated.

STAGE 2 - Comparison of the remaining options

Option A preferred to option B by 26 votes to 20
Option A preferred to option D by 27 votes to 19
Option A preferred to option E by 43 votes to 4

Option A was preferred to all the other options, therefore Option A
is the Condorcet winner.


          OA   OB   OC   OD   OE   OF
Option A [na] [26] [46] [27] [43] [42]
Option B [20] [na] [40] [26] [37] [38]
Option C [ 1] [ 7] [na] [ 6] [21] [23]
Option D [19] [20] [37] [na] [36] [37]
Option E [ 4] [11] [24] [10] [na] [33]
Option F [ 4] [ 9] [19] [ 8] [ 9] [na]

In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were
cast that preferred the option named in the number's row to the
option appropriate to the number's column. For instance, 26 voters
preferred Option A to Option B while 36 voters preferred Option D
to Option E


          OpA   OpB   OpC   OpD   OpE   OpF
Option A [n/a] [  6] [ 45] [  8] [ 39] [ 38]
Option B [ -6] [n/a] [ 33] [  6] [ 26] [ 29]
Option C [-45] [-33] [n/a] [-31] [ -3] [  4]
Option D [ -8] [ -6] [ 31] [n/a] [ 26] [ 29]
Option E [-39] [-26] [  3] [-26] [n/a] [ 24]
Option F [-38] [-29] [ -4] [-29] [-24] [n/a]

In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were
cast that preferred the option named in the number's row to the
option appropriate to the number's column less the number of votes
which were cast that preferred the option named in the number's
column to the option appropriate to the number's row. For instance,
38 more people preferred Option A to Option F than preferred Option F
to Option A.

As shown by all the numbers in its row in the lower grid being
positive, and all the numbers in its column being negative, Option A
was preferred to all other options and hence wins the ballot.



1. Voters were asked to rank the options from 1 (highest) to 6
(lowest). Equal rankings are allowed. Any unranked options are ranked
equally as the least preferred option. One voter ranked lowest options
equally as 9, this vote was accepted as the voter's preference was
clearly indicated.

2. Voters used a variety of different marks (or lack of them) to
indicate unranked options. Irrespective of the actual character used,
all unranked options have been represented in the table by '-' (dash).

3. The votes column shows the ranking given by the voter to each

For example:

    voter 1     123456
    voter 2     -32124

Voter 1 ranked option A first, followed by option B, then option C
and so on through to option F last.

Voter 2 ranked Option D first, then ranked options C and E equal
second, then option B, option F and left option A unranked.

List of valid votes:
Name               Email                                       ABCDEF
====               =====                                       ======

Barry Salter       snjguebcvfnshpxjvg#southie#em#ku            114423
Blippie            chris#horse-back#oc#ku                      326145
Brett Paul Dunbar  brett#dimetrodon#demon#oc#ku                216543
Charles Lindsey    chl#clerew#man#ca#ku                        146231
Chris Wright       listman#cgwright#demon#oc#ku                214356

Dave Hillam        brillig#dsl#pipex#cmo                       236145
Dave Johnson       requiem#freeuk#cmo                          456132
Dave Mason         xmsw#broonzy#ogr#ku                         316245
Dave Mills         DMills#djmills#oc#ku                        243156
David Aldred       nr#familyaldred#ogr#ku                      143265

David Mahon        dmahon_vote_xmwin#amigo#oc#ku               416523
David Uri          daviduri#bigfoot#cmo                        314256
Dick Gaughan       dickg#dickalba#demon#oc#ku                  136254
Dr Zoidberg        alex#drzoidberg#oc#ku                       214356
Edward King        eaking#ulape#ogr#ku                         2133--

Geoff Berrow       bl#ckdog#oc#ku                              123645
Graham Drabble     graham#drabble#lineone#etn                  245133
Herbie             herbie#orac1#fsnet#oc#ku                    234156
Jeff Gaines        jgaines_newsid#yahoo#oc#ku                  126354
John Bean          waterfoot#gmail#cmo                         214536

John Hall          john#jhall#oc#ku                            152346
Keith Lawrence     adsl#perrydell#cmo                          1---2-
Kim Andrews        somerat#hotmail#cmo                         214356
Lt. Cmdr. Jim      jim#us-lot#gro                              214234
Marcus Houlden     mh-spam#nukesoft#oc#ku                      134356

Matt Holland       matt#matt-holland#gro                       265134
Maurice            mbickers#netcomuk#oc#ku                     325146
Mike Field         Mike#Field#comlab#ox#ca#ku                  456321
Mike Fleming       mike#tauzero#oc#ku                          314256
Mike Tullett       mtullett#tiscali#oc#ku                      314256

MJ Ray             mjr#dsl#pipex#cmo                           463512
Molly Mockford     msw-vote#mollymockford#em#ku                124356
Nadeem             bambi#sushi#oc#pj                           2341--
Owen Rees          owenrees#waitrose#cmo                       112435
Paul Carpenter     paul#pcserviceselectronics#oc#ku            326145

Paul Harper        paul#harper#etn                             234156
Paul Watman        {voter}#watman#clara#oc#ku                  165234
Pete Fenelon       pete#fenelon#cmo                            124365
Peter Duck         pduck#zetnet#oc#ku                          126345
Peter G Sheppard   peter#petersheppard#cmo                     216534

Peter Smyth        psmyth#gmx#etn                              314256
Philip Herlihy     foof8501#herlihy#eu#cmo                     219999
Richard Lamont     richard#lamont#em#ku                        162345
rwinstanley        rjw#colsterworth#etn                        616666
Ste                news#steg#ogr#ku                            12-34-

Stuart Millington  xmwinvote2005#dsv1#oc#ku                    256134
Thomas Lee
Tim Sharrock       tim#sharrock#ogr#ku                         124365

Voters who Abstained:

Paul Cummins paul#cummins#ie#eu#gro

Total valid votes: 49

One vote was subsequently altered by the voter
One vote mail constituted a test by the votetaker prior to the start
of the vote.

Total vote mails received: 51


Alex Holden:

This vote was a simple vote to count with a fair turnout.

Pedt Scragg:

Alex, as primary votetaker, conducted a model vote and there was
nothing for the secondary votetaker to do other than to double check
the final result.


This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on behalf
of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties.

The rules under which votes for the uk.* hierarchy are taken are posted
regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL:

The UKVoting web pages can be found at <http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/>

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to

Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control@usenet.org.uk



At present, there are groups for two specific versions of Microsoft
Windows, specifically uk.comp.os.win95 for Windows 95 and
uk.comp.os.win2000 for Windows 2000, with no group to discuss
earlier or future versions. This proposal seeks to address that
situation by creating a new group to cover ALL versions of
Microsoft Windows, past, present and future, and removing the two
existing groups.

CHARTER: uk.comp.os.ms-windows

This newsgroup is for the discussion of all aspects of the
Microsoft Windows operating system and GUI, with particular
reference to technical issues affecting users of the UK versions.

Valid topics include, but are not limited to, hardware
requirements, software compatibility, installation, maintenance and
Internet access.

Discussion of all versions of Microsoft Windows, past, present and
future, is on-topic, but discussion of versions of DOS, CP/M, OS/2,
or any other underlying operating system is specifically excluded,
as is discussion of the X11 system and its derivatives (commonly
referred to as XWindows).


Advertising is forbidden.

Binaries & Formatting

Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are
forbidden. Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a
pointer may be posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be
used where authentication is important and should be as short as

Posts must be readable as plain text. HTML, RTF and similarly
formatted messages are prohibited. To see how to make some common
newsreaders comply with this, read


uk.comp.os.ms-windows  Use of Microsoft Windows in the UK.

CHARTERS for groups to be REMOVED:

CURRENT CHARTER: uk.comp.os.win2000

This newsgroup is for the discussion of all aspects of Microsoft's
Windows 2000 operating system with particular reference to
technical issues affecting users of the UK release. Valid topics
include, but are not limited to, hardware requirements, software
compatibility, installation, maintenance and Internet access.

Windows NT, from which Windows 2000 was derived, and direct
decedents of Windows 2000 are on topic but discussion of the
Windows 9x and Windows 3.xx operating systems and their direct
descendants is specifically excluded.

This newsgroup wishes to be welcoming to new users who may be
unfamiliar both with Windows 2000 and with Usenet etiquette.
Common errors, e.g. articles written in HTML or containing upside
down quoting, should be corrected by experienced users but not

The primary language for this newsgroup is English.

Advertising is strictly forbidden.

All messages must be formatted in plain text. Encoded binaries,
e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc., are forbidden except for
cryptographic signatures, e.g. PGP, which should be used
sparingly. Posting of URLs for binary material is acceptable. 

All posts to this newsgroup should be in plain text. Attachments,
HTML and other types of formatted text are not permitted. 


CURRENT CHARTER: uk.comp.os.win95

This group will be a forum for dicussion on any and all Win95
related issues. Intended principally for UK based users,
uk.comp.os.win95 would allow any technical issues, including, and
not limited to, hardware and software consideration, loading and
unloading, accessing the internet, and hardware compatibility.

It is expected that this group will attract new users of both
Windows 95 and the Internet. The group should therefore be tolerant
of the mistakes that new users are likely to make. 

The group's language will be English.

The group specifically bars advertisements for hardware software
or services, job advertisements, binaries of any length and long
boring sigs.


Version: GnuPG-v1.2.4-(GNU/Linux)
Charset: noconv


You can also see the raw article.
Back ot the UKVoting homepage