05 Nov 2003: Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.providers.aaisp

From: Barry Salter <xisp01-query@salterg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:10:24 +0000
Subject: RESULT : Create uk.net.providers.aaisp PASSES
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.net,alt.internet.providers.uk.aaisp,uk.net.providers


RESULT - Creation of Andrews and Arnold ISP group passes 

Summary of results:

The six options were:

Option A : Create uk.net.providers.aaisp
Option B : Create uk.net.providers.andrews+arnold
Option C : Create uk.net.providers.andrews-arnold
Option D : Create uk.net.providers.andrewsandarnold
Re-Open Discussion
Status Quo

STAGE ONE - Options compared to Status Quo:

Option A   preferred to         Status Quo by 94 votes to 39
Option B   preferred to         Status Quo by 76 votes to 44
Option C   preferred to         Status Quo by 74 votes to 45
Option D   preferred to         Status Quo by 75 votes to 46
Status Quo preferred to Re-Open Discussion by 56 votes to 54

All options except Re-Open Discussion beat Status Quo by at least 12
votes, so Re-Open Discussion is eliminated and the remaining options
continue to Stage Two.

STAGE TWO - Comparison of the remaining options:

Option A preferred to Option B by 95 votes to 17
Option A preferred to Option C by 96 votes to 15
Option A preferred to Option D by 94 votes to 18
Option B preferred to Option C by 62 votes to  9
Option B preferred to Option D by 57 votes to 25
Option D preferred to Option C by 47 votes to 31

Option A was preferred to all the other options, therefore the group
uk.net.providers.aaisp is the Condorcet winner and, subject to any 
appeals, will be created with the charter as given below.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Voting closed at 23:59:59 BST, 20th October 2003

  Primary Votetaker: Barry Salter <xisp01-query at salterg.demon.co.uk>
Secondary Votetaker: Alex Holden <sxisp01 at alex-holden.org.uk>
         Proponent : David Mahon <dmahonRFD at amigo.co.uk>

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------


These results have been posted to the following newsgroups:


- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Results:

The results follow below in the following order:

1) Summary of Mail Received During the Voting Period
2) Results
3) Individual Vote Details
4) Votetakers Comments
5) Voting and Appeal Guidelines
6) Rationale & Proposal

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------


169 messages were received to the Ballot Request Address, of which:

167 were valid Ballot Requests
  1 resulted in a Ballot Paper being sent to the Request address as it
    had the Ballot Request address in the Subject Header of the request
  1 was the Ballot Paper generated by the previous message
143 messages were received to the Voting Address, of which:

141 were valid Votes [5 of which superseded previous votes]
  1 was deemed invalid by the votetakers                       
  1 was the Ballot Paper generated by the loop mentioned above
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------



             A     B     C     D    ROD    SQ
  Option A [n/a] [ 95] [ 96] [ 94] [ 98] [ 94]
  Option B [ 17] [n/a] [ 62] [ 57] [ 76] [ 76]
  Option C [ 15] [  9] [n/a] [ 31] [ 70] [ 74]
  Option D [ 18] [ 25] [ 47] [n/a] [ 73] [ 75]
       ROD [ 30] [ 40] [ 45] [ 43] [n/a] [ 54]
Status Quo [ 39] [ 44] [ 45] [ 46] [ 56] [n/a]

In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast
that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option
appropriate to the number's column. For instance, 95 votes preferred
Option A (unp.aaisp) to Option B (unp.andrews+arnold) while 54 votes
preferred reopening the discussion to the Status Quo.


             A     B     C     D    ROD    SQ
  Option A [n/a] [ 78] [ 81] [ 76] [ 68] [ 55]
  Option B [-78] [n/a] [ 53] [ 32] [ 36] [ 32]
  Option C [-81] [-53] [n/a] [-16] [ 25] [ 29]
  Option D [-76] [-32] [ 16] [n/a] [ 30] [ 29]
       ROD [-68] [-36] [-25] [-30] [n/a] [ -2]
Status Quo [-55] [-32] [-29] [-29] [  2] [n/a]

In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast
that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option
appropriate to the number's column less the number of votes which were
cast that preferred the option named in the number's column to the option
appropriate to the number's row. For instance, 55 more people preferred
Option A to Status Quo than preferred Status Quo to Option A.

As shown by all the numbers in its row in the lower grid being positive,
Option A (uk.net.providers.aaisp) was preferred to all other options and
hence wins the ballot.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                                    Status Quo --------+
                                            Re-Open Discussion -------+|
           Option D : Create uk.net.providers.andrewsandarnold ------+||
             Option C : Create uk.net.providers.andrews-arnold -----+|||
             Option B : Create uk.net.providers.andrews+arnold ----+||||
                      Option A : Create uk.net.providers.aaisp ---+|||||
        Name                            Address                   ||||||
^Thunder^           Thunder#ukessex,gro,ku                        666621
{R}                 {newsnospam}#semolina,gro                     654321
Adrian Kennard      a#k,gg                                        XAAAAA
Alec McKenzie       mckenzie#despammed,moc                        123456
Alex                alex#letmethink,oc,ku                         133265
Alex D. Baxter      alex-news#oenone,demon,oc,ku                  222221
Alex Monro          alexm#pobox,moc                               124356
Andrew Black        andrew-v#black1,gro,ku                        13425A
Andrew Clayton      andrew#digital-domain,ten                     123465
Andrew Cundiff      andrew#cundiff,oc,ku                          125346
Andrew Hodgson      andrew#hodgsonfamily,gro                      132546
Andrew McDonald     andrew#mcdonald,gro,ku                        125436
Andrew Stoker       andrew#peek-a-boo,gro,ku                      AAAA21
Andy Norman         andy#norman,xc                                233166
Anthony Edwards     anthony#catfish,nildram,oc,ku                 635421
Anthony Gold        bigfoot#davros,gro                            124356
Badger              badger#housemartin,f9,oc,ku                   AAAAA1
Barry Dorrans       barryd#idunno,gro                             666621
Bob Eager           rde#tavi,oc,ku                                124356
Bob Foulger         bob#bobfoulger,oc,ku                          124365
Bob Scott           bob#Bobandaileen,oc,ku                        AAAA21
Brett Paul Dunbar   brett#dimetrodon,demon,oc,ku                  222221
Brian               Brian#bjforster,force9,oc,ku                  666621
BWGames             me#bwgames,ten                                146532
C J Eager           eagec002#medway,gro,ku                        134256
Chris Hill          news1#plantain,gro,ku                         12A3AA
Cliff Hones         voter#cliff,hones,gro,ku                      133245
Clive Feather       clive#davros,gro                              AAAA21
Clive R Robertson   providers1#clive,gro,ku                       124356
Daniel James        unpavote#sonadata,oc,ku                       145236
Dave Johnson        requiem#freeuk,moc                            433321
Dave Mason          xisp01#sarnie,gro,ku                          666621
Dave Mayall         dave#research-group,oc,ku                     533421
Dave Williams       dave#clues,moc                                AAAAA1
David Jolley        white#lucien,xc                               123456
David Mahon         dmahon_vote_xisp01#amigo,oc,ku                146523
David Nesbitt       newsreply2#charlecote,gro,ku                  123465
David Small         davids#4oceans,moc                            133254
David Taylor        davidt-news#yadt,oc,ku                        123456
Dick Gaughan        dickg#dickalba,demon,oc,ku                    645321
Duncan Gibb         dg#duncangibb,moc                             1AA23A
Edward King         eaking#ulape,gro,ku                           A111A2
Eusa                eusahues#coresystems,gro,ku                   133526
Fearghas McKay      fm#st-kilda,gro                               144465
fred                fred#fredc,demon,oc,ku                        124356
Gareth Jayne        gaz#gazmond,oc,ku                             144456
Graham Murray       newspost#gmurray,gro,ku                       123465
Hugh Pritchard      Hugh,Pritchard#AdvancedTechnologyLtd,oc,ku    XAAAAA
Iain McWilliams     iain#duckend,gro,ku                           124466
Iain Paton          nospam1#darkvoyage,gro,ku                     123465
Ian Jackson         ijackson#chiark,greenend,gro,ku               634521
Ian Stocks          ian#testbox2,oc,ku                            122234
J.H. Man            jman#home,gro                                 122234
James Farrar        londonstatto#yahoo,oc,ku                      635421
JBM                 jpb8#duke,ude                                 124356
jeff mcghie         jeff#mcghie,em,ku                             144423
Jeff Taylor         jeff#clearview,cix,oc,ku                      143256
Jim Crowther        jim#crowfam,gro,ku                            133324
John Bean           john#waterfoot,gro                            AAAAA1
John Burton         john,burton#jbmail,moc                        1234AA
John Green          aaisp-vote#giggled,gro                        134256
John Hobson         john#jphob,globalnet,oc,ku                    134562
John Laird          john#laird-towers,gro,ku                      122256
John Phillips       news0309#mainly,em,ku                         124365
John Reid           john,reid#jazza,demon,oc,ku                   123465
Jon Atkins          jon#jonatkins,moc                             113356
Jon Evans           jon,evans#pobox,moc                           124356
Julian Coleman      jdc#coris,gro,ku                              1AAAAA
Julie Brandon       julie-vote#computergeeks,oc,ku                125346
kat                 katnews#ntlworld,moc                          222261
Keith Lawrence      adsl#perrydell,moc                            123456
Ken Green           Ken,Green#kgcc,oc,ku                          1223AA
Kevin Andreoli      kevin#andreoli,oc,ku                          654321
Kevin Hones         kev#watchfront,oc,ku                          122233
lazarus             mfvc50#dsl,pipex,moc                          134256
Lt. Cmdr. Jim       jim#us-lot,gro                                111121
Lucas Maneos        ukvoting#subs,maneos,gro                      133244
Malcolm Franks      malcolm,franks#btinternet,moc                 123456
Malcolm Mladenovic  ukvotes#tinc,gro,ku                           124351
Mark Goodge         mark#good-stuff,oc,ku                         422231
Mark Knight         markk#knigma,gro                              166666
Mark May            voting#tamani,gro                             1AAAAA
Martin Cooper       usenetspam#martinc,em,ku                      122534
Martin Ebourne      martin#zepler,gro                             124356
Matchstick          matchstick#oofg,moc                           12345A
Matthew Balyuzi     matthew#balyuzi,ten                           122345
Matthew Seaman      m,seaman#infracaninophile,oc,ku               122266
Mike Fleming        mike#tauzero,oc,ku                            333312
Mike Mann           mike#kempston,ten                             134256
Mike Tullett        miketullett#ntlworld,moc                      634521
Mike Zanker         mike#zanker,gro                               124356
Neil McCalden       nm#zizz,gro                                   122234
Neil Pollicott      neil#cti-uk,moc                               134526
Nick Barnes         nick#bcn-it,oc,ku                             166666
Nick Perry          nick,perry#amulation,oc,ku                    342156
paul                {voter}#watman,clara,oc,ku                    AAAAA1
Paul                xml#mailandnews,moc                           1AAAAA
Paul Booth          pabooth#grumpy,oc,ku                          666661
Paul Cummins        committee#cummins,ie,eu,gro                   1AAA66
Paul Giverin        paul#giverin,oc,ku                            654321
Paul Harper         paul#harper,ten                               666621
Paul Hilder         pjhilder#yahoo,oc,ku                          132456
Paul Lettington     usenetspam#plett,oc,ku                        324156
Paul Williams       flo#uk,thalesgroup,moc                        123354
Pedt                pedt#dontspame,moc                            AAAA21
Pekka P. Pirinen    ppp#pirinen,demon,oc,ku                       111121
Pete Fenelon        pete#fenelon,moc                              AAAA21
Pete The Gardener   pete_the_gardener#hotmail,moc                 636621
Peter Gradwell      peter#gradwell,moc                            1AAAAA
Peter Hutchinson    peter#hcs-ltd,ten                             142356
Peter Maydell       pmaydell#chiark,greenend,gro,ku               123456
Peter Smyth         psmyth#ukf,ten                                635421
Philip Powell       philip#blencathra,gro,ku                      A1A243
Richard Clayton     richard#highwayman,moc                        365421
Richard Lamont      richard#lamont,em,ku                          124356
Richard Smith       spam_all_you_want#yahoo,moc                   133324
Rick Payne          rickp#rossfell,oc,ku                          166666
Robert Woolley      rob#robertwoolley,oc,ku                       1234AA
Ross Nicol          ross-vote#ran,gro,ku                          134265
Roy Holt            enginehouse#ntlworld,moc                      134265
Ryan Osborne        ryan#sproutt,moc                              166666
Scott Taylor        taylorscott67#yahoo,oc,ku                     123645
Sean McKee          sean#aa,un                                    xAAAAA
Shaun Kemp          shaun,kemp#aaisp,ten,ku                       YAAAAA
Stan Dorrington     stan,dorrington#ianwilliams,oc,ku             122266
Stephen Diston      S,Diston#Menaces,Freeserve,oc,ku              134526
Steve Firth         voting#malloc,oc,ku                           566621
Steve Purdy         vote-20031001#roundtuit,gro,ku                166634
Terry Boon          terry#counterfactual,gro                      1234AA
thomas lee          tfl#psp,oc,ku                                 645321
Thomas Sandford     ${thomas/03$}#paradisegreen,oc,ku             12453A
Tim Lee             Tim#datapath,oc,ku                            1342AA
Tom Hughes          tom#compton,un                                123456
Tony Walton         tony,walton#sun,moc                           666621
victoria acres      victoria#aaisp,ten,ku                         xAAAAA
Wm                  tcnw61#tarrcity,demon,oc,ku                   666621

Key: A = Abstain/No Preference


bib                  bib_aab#hotmail,moc

Voted with Yes and No instead of ranking votes

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Votetakers Comments:

Primary Votetaker:-

Following the Swen attack experienced on recent votes, I opted to munge
all of the addresses in the CFV, including those in the headers. Some
software was confused by this (and rightly so, as the headers were not
compliant with RFCs) and for this I apologise.

The vote was also affected by severe delays in Demon Internet's mail
system, which meant I didn't receive some votes until nearly 4 days
after they were posted. [See news:demon.service passim] As soon as I 
discovered this delay was occuring, I changed the forwarding for the
voting addresses to use my personal mail server rather than rely on 
Demon's mail system, so the remaining votes were received in a timely

It is interesting to note that, whilst 167 valid ballot requests were
received, only 141 valid votes were cast.

Furthermore, a number of Andrews & Arnold staff, failed to follow the
voting instructions correctly. As they had expressed a preference for
only one of the options, however, it was decided to count their votes
as valid. Given the source of the votes, and the fact that they had all
voted in the same way, I was concerned as to their validity under the
voting guidelines, so performed some further checks. All four voters had
a separate posting history, though a couple hadn't posted for some time,
so I decided to allow the votes.

One voter who failed to read the voting instructions treated each option
as a separate Y/N vote, and failed to resubmit his vote when
informed that it was invalid.

Secondary Votetaker:-

Due to the large number of votes, I assisted Barry with validating the
voter identities. I did not make a determination as to whether or not
the preferences cast were valid or not. I did notice an anomaly:

Whilst voters can vote for one preference if they so wish - thus ranking
all the other options *equally* below their first preference, I have
never to my knowledge seen a voter use "X" to identify their first and
only preference. To therefore see four individuals use "X" to identify
their only preference was a suprise, and those votes were subject to a
more rigorous examination, as I personally question whether or not four
individuals had the same independent thought of ignoring instructions
in exactly the same way.

Given the source of those votes (see Barry's comments,) I had doubts
over whether or not four individuals casted four votes. I raised those
doubts with the Barry as primary votetaker who conducted a full 

Given the extremely large number of votes cast, I believe Barry should
be thanked for the extra effort required in handling this vote.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs in
the uk hierarchy.  The rules under which this vote is taken are posted
regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL:

The UKVoting web pages can be found at <http://www.ukvoting.org.uk>

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to

Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control at usenet.org.uk.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------


The group alt.internet.providers.uk.aaisp already exists for discussion
of the Internet Service Provider named AAISP (Andrews & Arnold). It is a 
very lively group, however alt.* does not always offer the best 
propagation everywhere and occasionally it becomes apparent that there 
are problems getting some ISPs to carry the group.

As the ISP is based in the UK and caters mainly for a UK client base, it
seems sensible to have the group based in the uk.* hierarchy where it
should be well propagated.

This proposal has the support of the ISP.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------


uk.net.providers.aaisp	AAISP (Andrews & Arnold) discussion

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHARTER: uk.net.providers.aaisp

This group is for discussion of issues relating to the Internet Service 
Provider AAISP (Andrews & Arnold). This includes, but is not limited to, 
help with services, discussion of new products and notification of 


Advertising is forbidden.

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