Path: sn-us!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-09!supernews.com!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host81-144-71-63.midband.mdip.bt.NET!not-for-mail From: Barry Salter Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.net,alt.internet.providers.uk.aaisp,uk.net.providers Subject: RESULT : Create uk.net.providers.aaisp PASSES Followup-To: uk.net.news.config Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:10:24 +0000 Lines: 414 Sender: Charles Lindsey as Deputy Control Approved: Charles Lindsey as Deputy Control Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: host81-144-71-63.midband.mdip.bt.net (81.144.71.63) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1068091960 47684424 81.144.71.63 (16 [99345]) X-Orig-Path: clerew!clw.cs.man.ac.uk!not-for-mail Xref: sn-us uk.net.news.announce:3347 uk.net.news.config:168803 uk.net:69578 alt.internet.providers.uk.aaisp:11648 uk.net.providers:286 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- RESULT - Creation of Andrews and Arnold ISP group passes Summary of results: =================== The six options were: Option A : Create uk.net.providers.aaisp Option B : Create uk.net.providers.andrews+arnold Option C : Create uk.net.providers.andrews-arnold Option D : Create uk.net.providers.andrewsandarnold Re-Open Discussion Status Quo STAGE ONE - Options compared to Status Quo: Option A preferred to Status Quo by 94 votes to 39 Option B preferred to Status Quo by 76 votes to 44 Option C preferred to Status Quo by 74 votes to 45 Option D preferred to Status Quo by 75 votes to 46 Status Quo preferred to Re-Open Discussion by 56 votes to 54 All options except Re-Open Discussion beat Status Quo by at least 12 votes, so Re-Open Discussion is eliminated and the remaining options continue to Stage Two. STAGE TWO - Comparison of the remaining options: Option A preferred to Option B by 95 votes to 17 Option A preferred to Option C by 96 votes to 15 Option A preferred to Option D by 94 votes to 18 Option B preferred to Option C by 62 votes to 9 Option B preferred to Option D by 57 votes to 25 Option D preferred to Option C by 47 votes to 31 Option A was preferred to all the other options, therefore the group uk.net.providers.aaisp is the Condorcet winner and, subject to any appeals, will be created with the charter as given below. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Voting closed at 23:59:59 BST, 20th October 2003 Primary Votetaker: Barry Salter Secondary Votetaker: Alex Holden Proponent : David Mahon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Distribution: These results have been posted to the following newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce uk.net.news.config uk.net alt.internet.providers.uk.aaisp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Results: The results follow below in the following order: 1) Summary of Mail Received During the Voting Period 2) Results 3) Individual Vote Details 4) Votetakers Comments 5) Voting and Appeal Guidelines 6) Rationale & Proposal - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY OF MAIL RECEIVED DURING THE VOTING PERIOD 169 messages were received to the Ballot Request Address, of which: 167 were valid Ballot Requests 1 resulted in a Ballot Paper being sent to the Request address as it had the Ballot Request address in the Subject Header of the request message 1 was the Ballot Paper generated by the previous message 143 messages were received to the Voting Address, of which: 141 were valid Votes [5 of which superseded previous votes] 1 was deemed invalid by the votetakers 1 was the Ballot Paper generated by the loop mentioned above - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RESULTS: RAW PREFERENCES GRID A B C D ROD SQ Option A [n/a] [ 95] [ 96] [ 94] [ 98] [ 94] Option B [ 17] [n/a] [ 62] [ 57] [ 76] [ 76] Option C [ 15] [ 9] [n/a] [ 31] [ 70] [ 74] Option D [ 18] [ 25] [ 47] [n/a] [ 73] [ 75] ROD [ 30] [ 40] [ 45] [ 43] [n/a] [ 54] Status Quo [ 39] [ 44] [ 45] [ 46] [ 56] [n/a] In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option appropriate to the number's column. For instance, 95 votes preferred Option A (unp.aaisp) to Option B (unp.andrews+arnold) while 54 votes preferred reopening the discussion to the Status Quo. OPPOSITE COMPARISONS GRID A B C D ROD SQ Option A [n/a] [ 78] [ 81] [ 76] [ 68] [ 55] Option B [-78] [n/a] [ 53] [ 32] [ 36] [ 32] Option C [-81] [-53] [n/a] [-16] [ 25] [ 29] Option D [-76] [-32] [ 16] [n/a] [ 30] [ 29] ROD [-68] [-36] [-25] [-30] [n/a] [ -2] Status Quo [-55] [-32] [-29] [-29] [ 2] [n/a] In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option appropriate to the number's column less the number of votes which were cast that preferred the option named in the number's column to the option appropriate to the number's row. For instance, 55 more people preferred Option A to Status Quo than preferred Status Quo to Option A. As shown by all the numbers in its row in the lower grid being positive, Option A (uk.net.providers.aaisp) was preferred to all other options and hence wins the ballot. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- INDIVIDUAL VOTE DETAILS Status Quo --------+ Re-Open Discussion -------+| Option D : Create uk.net.providers.andrewsandarnold ------+|| Option C : Create uk.net.providers.andrews-arnold -----+||| Option B : Create uk.net.providers.andrews+arnold ----+|||| Option A : Create uk.net.providers.aaisp ---+||||| Name Address |||||| ^Thunder^ Thunder#ukessex,gro,ku 666621 {R} {newsnospam}#semolina,gro 654321 Adrian Kennard a#k,gg XAAAAA Alec McKenzie mckenzie#despammed,moc 123456 Alex alex#letmethink,oc,ku 133265 Alex D. Baxter alex-news#oenone,demon,oc,ku 222221 Alex Monro alexm#pobox,moc 124356 Andrew Black andrew-v#black1,gro,ku 13425A Andrew Clayton andrew#digital-domain,ten 123465 Andrew Cundiff andrew#cundiff,oc,ku 125346 Andrew Hodgson andrew#hodgsonfamily,gro 132546 Andrew McDonald andrew#mcdonald,gro,ku 125436 Andrew Stoker andrew#peek-a-boo,gro,ku AAAA21 Andy Norman andy#norman,xc 233166 Anthony Edwards anthony#catfish,nildram,oc,ku 635421 Anthony Gold bigfoot#davros,gro 124356 Badger badger#housemartin,f9,oc,ku AAAAA1 Barry Dorrans barryd#idunno,gro 666621 Bob Eager rde#tavi,oc,ku 124356 Bob Foulger bob#bobfoulger,oc,ku 124365 Bob Scott bob#Bobandaileen,oc,ku AAAA21 Brett Paul Dunbar brett#dimetrodon,demon,oc,ku 222221 Brian Brian#bjforster,force9,oc,ku 666621 BWGames me#bwgames,ten 146532 C J Eager eagec002#medway,gro,ku 134256 Chris Hill news1#plantain,gro,ku 12A3AA Cliff Hones voter#cliff,hones,gro,ku 133245 Clive Feather clive#davros,gro AAAA21 Clive R Robertson providers1#clive,gro,ku 124356 Daniel James unpavote#sonadata,oc,ku 145236 Dave Johnson requiem#freeuk,moc 433321 Dave Mason xisp01#sarnie,gro,ku 666621 Dave Mayall dave#research-group,oc,ku 533421 Dave Williams dave#clues,moc AAAAA1 David Jolley white#lucien,xc 123456 David Mahon dmahon_vote_xisp01#amigo,oc,ku 146523 David Nesbitt newsreply2#charlecote,gro,ku 123465 David Small davids#4oceans,moc 133254 David Taylor davidt-news#yadt,oc,ku 123456 Dick Gaughan dickg#dickalba,demon,oc,ku 645321 Duncan Gibb dg#duncangibb,moc 1AA23A Edward King eaking#ulape,gro,ku A111A2 Eusa eusahues#coresystems,gro,ku 133526 Fearghas McKay fm#st-kilda,gro 144465 fred fred#fredc,demon,oc,ku 124356 Gareth Jayne gaz#gazmond,oc,ku 144456 Graham Murray newspost#gmurray,gro,ku 123465 Hugh Pritchard Hugh,Pritchard#AdvancedTechnologyLtd,oc,ku XAAAAA Iain McWilliams iain#duckend,gro,ku 124466 Iain Paton nospam1#darkvoyage,gro,ku 123465 Ian Jackson ijackson#chiark,greenend,gro,ku 634521 Ian Stocks ian#testbox2,oc,ku 122234 J.H. Man jman#home,gro 122234 James Farrar londonstatto#yahoo,oc,ku 635421 JBM jpb8#duke,ude 124356 jeff mcghie jeff#mcghie,em,ku 144423 Jeff Taylor jeff#clearview,cix,oc,ku 143256 Jim Crowther jim#crowfam,gro,ku 133324 John Bean john#waterfoot,gro AAAAA1 John Burton john,burton#jbmail,moc 1234AA John Green aaisp-vote#giggled,gro 134256 John Hobson john#jphob,globalnet,oc,ku 134562 John Laird john#laird-towers,gro,ku 122256 John Phillips news0309#mainly,em,ku 124365 John Reid john,reid#jazza,demon,oc,ku 123465 Jon Atkins jon#jonatkins,moc 113356 Jon Evans jon,evans#pobox,moc 124356 Julian Coleman jdc#coris,gro,ku 1AAAAA Julie Brandon julie-vote#computergeeks,oc,ku 125346 kat katnews#ntlworld,moc 222261 Keith Lawrence adsl#perrydell,moc 123456 Ken Green Ken,Green#kgcc,oc,ku 1223AA Kevin Andreoli kevin#andreoli,oc,ku 654321 Kevin Hones kev#watchfront,oc,ku 122233 lazarus mfvc50#dsl,pipex,moc 134256 Lt. Cmdr. Jim jim#us-lot,gro 111121 Lucas Maneos ukvoting#subs,maneos,gro 133244 Malcolm Franks malcolm,franks#btinternet,moc 123456 Malcolm Mladenovic ukvotes#tinc,gro,ku 124351 Mark Goodge mark#good-stuff,oc,ku 422231 Mark Knight markk#knigma,gro 166666 Mark May voting#tamani,gro 1AAAAA Martin Cooper usenetspam#martinc,em,ku 122534 Martin Ebourne martin#zepler,gro 124356 Matchstick matchstick#oofg,moc 12345A Matthew Balyuzi matthew#balyuzi,ten 122345 Matthew Seaman m,seaman#infracaninophile,oc,ku 122266 Mike Fleming mike#tauzero,oc,ku 333312 Mike Mann mike#kempston,ten 134256 Mike Tullett miketullett#ntlworld,moc 634521 Mike Zanker mike#zanker,gro 124356 Neil McCalden nm#zizz,gro 122234 Neil Pollicott neil#cti-uk,moc 134526 Nick Barnes nick#bcn-it,oc,ku 166666 Nick Perry nick,perry#amulation,oc,ku 342156 paul {voter}#watman,clara,oc,ku AAAAA1 Paul xml#mailandnews,moc 1AAAAA Paul Booth pabooth#grumpy,oc,ku 666661 Paul Cummins committee#cummins,ie,eu,gro 1AAA66 Paul Giverin paul#giverin,oc,ku 654321 Paul Harper paul#harper,ten 666621 Paul Hilder pjhilder#yahoo,oc,ku 132456 Paul Lettington usenetspam#plett,oc,ku 324156 Paul Williams flo#uk,thalesgroup,moc 123354 Pedt pedt#dontspame,moc AAAA21 Pekka P. Pirinen ppp#pirinen,demon,oc,ku 111121 Pete Fenelon pete#fenelon,moc AAAA21 Pete The Gardener pete_the_gardener#hotmail,moc 636621 Peter Gradwell peter#gradwell,moc 1AAAAA Peter Hutchinson peter#hcs-ltd,ten 142356 Peter Maydell pmaydell#chiark,greenend,gro,ku 123456 Peter Smyth psmyth#ukf,ten 635421 Philip Powell philip#blencathra,gro,ku A1A243 Richard Clayton richard#highwayman,moc 365421 Richard Lamont richard#lamont,em,ku 124356 Richard Smith spam_all_you_want#yahoo,moc 133324 Rick Payne rickp#rossfell,oc,ku 166666 Robert Woolley rob#robertwoolley,oc,ku 1234AA Ross Nicol ross-vote#ran,gro,ku 134265 Roy Holt enginehouse#ntlworld,moc 134265 Ryan Osborne ryan#sproutt,moc 166666 Scott Taylor taylorscott67#yahoo,oc,ku 123645 Sean McKee sean#aa,un xAAAAA Shaun Kemp shaun,kemp#aaisp,ten,ku YAAAAA Stan Dorrington stan,dorrington#ianwilliams,oc,ku 122266 Stephen Diston S,Diston#Menaces,Freeserve,oc,ku 134526 Steve Firth voting#malloc,oc,ku 566621 Steve Purdy vote-20031001#roundtuit,gro,ku 166634 Terry Boon terry#counterfactual,gro 1234AA thomas lee tfl#psp,oc,ku 645321 Thomas Sandford ${thomas/03$}#paradisegreen,oc,ku 12453A Tim Lee Tim#datapath,oc,ku 1342AA Tom Hughes tom#compton,un 123456 Tony Walton tony,walton#sun,moc 666621 victoria acres victoria#aaisp,ten,ku xAAAAA Wm tcnw61#tarrcity,demon,oc,ku 666621 Key: A = Abstain/No Preference INVALID VOTES bib bib_aab#hotmail,moc Voted with Yes and No instead of ranking votes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Votetakers Comments: Primary Votetaker:- Following the Swen attack experienced on recent votes, I opted to munge all of the addresses in the CFV, including those in the headers. Some software was confused by this (and rightly so, as the headers were not compliant with RFCs) and for this I apologise. The vote was also affected by severe delays in Demon Internet's mail system, which meant I didn't receive some votes until nearly 4 days after they were posted. [See news:demon.service passim] As soon as I discovered this delay was occuring, I changed the forwarding for the voting addresses to use my personal mail server rather than rely on Demon's mail system, so the remaining votes were received in a timely manner. It is interesting to note that, whilst 167 valid ballot requests were received, only 141 valid votes were cast. Furthermore, a number of Andrews & Arnold staff, failed to follow the voting instructions correctly. As they had expressed a preference for only one of the options, however, it was decided to count their votes as valid. Given the source of the votes, and the fact that they had all voted in the same way, I was concerned as to their validity under the voting guidelines, so performed some further checks. All four voters had a separate posting history, though a couple hadn't posted for some time, so I decided to allow the votes. One voter who failed to read the voting instructions treated each option as a separate Y/N vote, and failed to resubmit his vote when informed that it was invalid. Secondary Votetaker:- Due to the large number of votes, I assisted Barry with validating the voter identities. I did not make a determination as to whether or not the preferences cast were valid or not. I did notice an anomaly: Whilst voters can vote for one preference if they so wish - thus ranking all the other options *equally* below their first preference, I have never to my knowledge seen a voter use "X" to identify their first and only preference. To therefore see four individuals use "X" to identify their only preference was a suprise, and those votes were subject to a more rigorous examination, as I personally question whether or not four individuals had the same independent thought of ignoring instructions in exactly the same way. Given the source of those votes (see Barry's comments,) I had doubts over whether or not four individuals casted four votes. I raised those doubts with the Barry as primary votetaker who conducted a full investigation. Given the extremely large number of votes cast, I believe Barry should be thanked for the extra effort required in handling this vote. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting. UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs in the uk hierarchy. The rules under which this vote is taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: The UKVoting web pages can be found at There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control at usenet.org.uk. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RATIONALE: The group alt.internet.providers.uk.aaisp already exists for discussion of the Internet Service Provider named AAISP (Andrews & Arnold). It is a very lively group, however alt.* does not always offer the best propagation everywhere and occasionally it becomes apparent that there are problems getting some ISPs to carry the group. As the ISP is based in the UK and caters mainly for a UK client base, it seems sensible to have the group based in the uk.* hierarchy where it should be well propagated. This proposal has the support of the ISP. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.net.providers.aaisp AAISP (Andrews & Arnold) discussion - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- CHARTER: uk.net.providers.aaisp This group is for discussion of issues relating to the Internet Service Provider AAISP (Andrews & Arnold). This includes, but is not limited to, help with services, discussion of new products and notification of outages. Advertising Advertising is forbidden. Binaries & Formatting Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are forbidden. Posts must be readable as plain text. PGP signatures may be used, if necessary, for proof of identity. 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