23 Aug 2000: Creation of uk.sport.betting or uk.rec.sportsbetting
From: ukvoting@amigo.co.uk (David Mahon)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:38:39 +0100
Subject: RESULT: uk.sport.betting PASSES
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.sport.horseracing,uk.sport.golf,uk.sport.misc,uk.rec.gambling.misc
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RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES
Create uk.sport.betting: PASSES
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Voting began Friday 28 July 2000
Voting closed Friday 18 August 2000 23:59:59 BST
Proponent: Steve Morris <steve@firebeast.screaming.net>
Votetaker: David Mahon <ukvoting@amigo.co.uk>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
These results have been posted to the following newsgroups:
uk.net.news.announce
uk.net.news.config
uk.sport.horseracing
uk.sport.golf
uk.sport.misc
uk.rec.gambling.misc
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
RESULTS COUNTING
The four options were:
1) Create uk.sport.betting (USB) create new newsgroup
2) Create uk.rec.sportsbetting (URS) create new newsgroup
3) Status Quo (SQ) no new newsgroup
4) Re-open Discussion (ROD) discussion reopens
STAGE ONE - Options compared to Status Quo:
USB preferred to SQ by 69 : 15 (3 abstentions / no preference)
URS preferred to SQ by 68 : 15 (4 abstentions / no preference)
ROD preferred to SQ by 54 : 15 (18 abstentions / no preference)
All options beat status quo by at least 12 votes and so continue...
STAGE TWO - Remaining options compared with each other
USB is preferred to URS by 62 : 18 (7 abstentions / no preference)
USB is preferred to ROD by 71 : 15 (1 abstention / no preference)
URS is preferred to ROD by 68 : 16 (3 abstentions / no preference)
USB was preferred to all the other options, and had a majority of more
than twelve over the Status Quo, therefore the group is created with the
charter as given below.
There were a total of 87 valid votes.
There will be a five day discussion period after these results have been
posted before the group is created to allow for any allegations of
irregularities to be raised.
The Rationale, Summary of Discussion and Charter follow the main results
for informational purposes.
RAW PREFERENCES GRID
USB URS ROD SQ
USB [ na ] [ 62 ] [ 71 ] [ 69 ] winner
URS [ 18 ] [ na ] [ 68 ] [ 68 ]
ROD [ 15 ] [ 16 ] [ na ] [ 54 ]
SQ [ 15 ] [ 15 ] [ 15 ] [ na ]
In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast
that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option
appropriate to the number's column. For instance, 69 votes preferred USB
to SQ while 16 votes preferred ROD to URS.
OPPOSITE COMPARISONS GRID
USB URS ROD SQ
USB [ na ] [ 44 ] [ 56 ] [ 54 ] winner
URS [-44 ] [ na ] [ 52 ] [ 53 ]
ROD [-56 ] [-52 ] [ na ] [ 39 ]
SQ [-54 ] [-53 ] [-39 ] [ na ]
In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast
that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option
appropriate to the number's column less the number of votes which were
cast that preferred the option named in the number's column to the
option appropriate to the number's row. For example, 44 more people
preferred USB to URS than preferred URS to USB, and 39 more people
preferred ROD to SQ than preferred SQ to ROD.
The winning option in the absolute table is that where all the numbers
in its row are higher than the number in the equivalent position in its
column. The winning option in the relative table is that which has all
positive numbers in its row and all negative numbers in its column. (On
this ballot, this is USB).
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THE RESULTS IN FULL
SQ (status quo)-------------------------------------------------+-+-+-+
ROD (re-open discussion)----------------------------------------+-+-+ |
URS (uk.rec.sportsbetting)--------------------------------------+-+ | |
USB (uk.sports.betting)-----------------------------------------+ | | |
| | | |
Name Email Address | | | |
Alan Catherall alan*acatherall.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 - -
Alan Fisher tgaf*redhotant#moc 1 2 - -
Alex Holden votes*big-pants.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 3
Alex Kryptonite alex*kryptonite.fsnet#oc#ku 2 1 3 4
Andrew Hartley andrew*eastupham.freeserve#oc#ku 4 4 2 1
Andrew Stoker andrew*peek-a-boo#gro#ku - - 2 1
Andy Mabbett andy*pigsonthewing#gro#ku - - 1 2
Anne Ramkaran anne*ramkaran.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 -
Arthur Llugeas allugeas*hotmail#moc 1 2 3 4
B.Price bazzep*madasafish#moc 1 2 3 4
Barry Kenny barry.kenny*btinternet#moc 1 2 4 4
Bob Hitchcock bob*bobhitch.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Brian Black brian*jblack.freeserve#oc#ku 2 1 4 3
Charles Lindsey chl*clw.cs.man#ca#ku 1 2 - 1
chris chris*coddieuk.f9#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Chris M. Dickson chris*dickson.demon#oc#ku 2 1 3 4
Chris Mac chris.mcilfatrick*which#ten 1 2 3 -
Christopher G Brannigan c.g.brannigan*btinternet#moc 1 2 3 4
Dark Horse dave.benham*virgin#ten 1 2 3 4
Darren Moulding fatman*dipso.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Dave Hillam dave*hbarnet.freeserve#oc#ku - 2 1 -
Dave Mayall david.mayall*ukonline#oc#ku 4 3 2 1
Dave Roberts dave*smartproof#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
dave thorn davethorn*karvid.demon#oc#ku 1 2 4 4
davey_brown davey_brown*ntlworld#moc 1 2 3 4
David Smart bigsmart*djsmart.fsnet#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Eddie Bernard usenet*ebernard.greatxscape#ten 1 2 3 4
ewilliams ewilliams*nescot#ca#ku 2 1 3 4
Firebeast firebeast*firebeast.worldonline#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
G-Man gman*redhotant#moc 1 2 - -
Gary Partington g.partington*talk21#moc 1 2 - -
Geoff (Blade Runner) black-dog*geocities#moc 1 2 3 4
gordon ross gordon.ross*greenstyle.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Graham Drabble graham.drabble*lineone#ten 4 3 1 2
Guy Morgan guy*first-light-services#oc#ku 4 1 3 2
Hugh Taylor hutay*globalnet#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Iain Bowen alaric*alaric#gro#ku 4 1 2 3
Iain Simpson iws*dial.pipex#moc 1 2 3 4
Ian Chard ichard*cadence#moc 1 4 2 3
Ian Neeson john_smith_jr*lineone#ten 1 2 3 4
Ian Wheldale wheldale*bigfoot#moc 1 2 4 3
InsideSix insidesix*aol#moc 1 2 4 4
Jack Howard jack.howard*stormshadow#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
James Bridson james*socrates.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
James Coupe james*zephyr#gro#ku 4 3 2 1
Jan jan*firebeast.worldonline#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Jim Hill vote-sportbet*jhc#gro#ku 4 3 2 1
John L jl*cromwellmedia#oc#ku 1 4 2 3
John Muckles joe*muckles.fsnet#oc#ku 1 2 - -
john turnbull helen*jturnbull.fsnet#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Jon Thomson jon*thomson2273.freeserve#oc#ku 2 1 3 4
Keith Willoughby keith*flat222#gro 1 2 3 4
Kevin Leary kleary91*aol#moc 1 2 - -
Linda Catherall linda*thebridgeproject.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 - -
Mal Davies MalDDD*aol#moc 1 2 3 4
Malcolm Wright fantrace*aol#moc 1 2 3 4
Mark Goodge mark*good-stuff#oc#ku 1 1 3 4
Martin Ludgate editor*navvies.demon#oc#ku 2 1 3 3
MartinK Martink*kss.win-uk#ten 1 2 3 4
mbourgaize flik*redhotant#moc 1 2 3 4
michael michael*caliver.demon#oc#ku 1 2 4 3
Mike Bergquist bergquist*btinternet#moc 1 4 4 4
Mike Henry mike*tw2#moc 4 4 1 1
Molly Mockford molly*mockfords.clara#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Nick Regan nick*nregan#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
nick white nick.white*cwcom#ten 1 2 3 4
P D Store paul*greystones.ezesurf#oc#ku 1 3 2 4
Paul Paul*xebon.clara#oc#ku 4 3 2 1
Paul Aitman aitman*crosswinds#ten 1 2 3 4
Paul Leake P.J.Leake*durham#ca#ku - - - -
Paul Rush PUFC*btinternet#moc 1 2 3 4
Peter Munn pmunnsub*pearce-neptune.demon#oc#ku 2 1 3 1
Philip Powell philip*blencathra#gro#ku 4 1 2 3
Richard Kettlewell rjk+sportbet*sfere.greenend#gro#ku 4 3 1 2
Rob Bain rob*thebain.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 - -
Ronan Flood ronan*noc.ulcc#ca#ku 1 2 4 3
Rosso r.ovland*virgin#ten 1 2 3 4
Simon Cruddace sbc1*btinternet#moc 1 2 3 4
Steve Bain steve*thebain.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 - -
Stuart O'Donnell spod*venicones.demon#oc#ku 4 3 2 1
Sue Bergquist suebergquist*btinternet#moc 1 4 4 4
Suzanne Eason suzanne*darob.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Thomas Lee tfl*psp#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Tim Walls tim*snowgoons.fsnet#oc#ku 1 2 3 4
Tobias erle torex*kholdan#ed 1 4 2 3
Tony tony*tagman.demon#oc#ku 1 1 2 3
Tony Ferris tony*silmart.demon#oc#ku 1 2 4 3
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VOTETAKER'S COMMENTS:
This was my first vote and it seems to have been fairly busy.
In total there were 104 votes - 87 valid votes, 16 invalid votes and 1
duplicate (re-vote). Of the 16 invalid votes (by 12 people), 7
subsequently submitted a valid vote leaving 5 spoiled.
One problem did come to light concerning a bug in Outlook Express - any
voter suffering from an invalid vote due to it was given instructions on
how to overcome it. Only one voter with such a problem failed to even
try and resubmit a valid vote.
One vote was submitted as a word attachment. After virus and trojan
scanning it was opened and accepted. In future, however, I am likely to
reject votes sent in such a manner as invalid.
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NEWSGROUPS LINE:
uk.sport.betting All aspects of sports betting from a UK view
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PROPONENT'S RATIONALE:
Whilst there are groups to cover individual sports, the discussion of
other non-related sports is frowned upon. There are also groups
dedicated to gambling, but these are aimed more at the professional
gambler, and games of chance. The aim of this group is to provide a
like-minded community for the 'Joe average' UK betting enthusiast, to
enable all UK sports betting enthusiasts to debate the merits or
otherwise of all sport around the world, from a UK betting angle.
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PROPONENT'S SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION:
After continued lengthy discussion in uk.net.news.config the general
discussion has continued to be more about personality clashes and petty
name calling, rather than focusing on the subject at hand, from both
sides. The majority of posts agreed that the two suggestions
uk.sport.betting or uk.rec.sportsbetting may be the right place for this
group, and that there is a definite need for this group.
Some have maintained their suggestion that the uk.rec.gambling group
covers the need of the potential users. There was a strong resistance to
this idea amongst potential users of the proposed group after the first
RFD, and that feeling is still the same now.
The continued suggestion that the proposed group be placed in the
gambling hierarchy, has been considered, and considered at some length.
Yet I still feel the two options of uk.sport.betting and
uk.rec.sportsbetting are the best way forward. The latter suggestion
being one of the suggestions to come from the first RFD, and came from
those opposed to the originally proposed group.
I think the best suggestion came from a post that pointed this out
"Personally, I'm persuaded that uk.sport.betting is acceptable. I
agree that, taxonomically, it's less than ideal, but I think that this
is one of the situations where it's better to get it "approximately
right". As the naming guidelines put it:
'Group similar subjects together, in the same hierarchy if
possible, so that people looking for a related subject will
have a good idea where to find it. It is often better to
put a new group with others in an approximately right "place"
than to insist on getting the name precise at the expense of
putting the group in a different area that many potential
users will not look at. Remember that newsgroup names are not
'judgmental' - placing uk.media.books.sf under uk.media.*
rather than uk.arts.* is in no way trying to say that science
fiction books are not art, rather it is accepting that placing
a group to talk about such books near to a group to talk about
science fiction television makes both groups easier to find
with reference to each other.'
In this case, uk.rec.gambling.* would be the "precise" positioning,
but I think it's fair to say that many of the potential users would
not think of looking there. To paraphrase the guidelines, placing
uk.sport.betting under uk.sport doesn't imply that sport betting isn't
gambling, rather that placing a group to discuss such gambling near a
group to talk about other sport-related topics makes it easier to find
with reference to sport."
I now feel even more confident that the two name choices are the
correct choices.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
APPROVED CHARTER: uk.sport.betting
The group is a forum for the discussion of any and all issues relating
to any sports worldwide and the betting on those sports from a UK
viewpoint. The scope of the group covers all aspects relating to
sports, betting and betting systems, training, analysis of form and
breeding, locations, elements affecting the sport etc. and should enable
any UK betting enthusiast to compare experiences and share information
and predictions relating to any sport. Betting mediums relying more on
chance, such as Bingo, Lotteries, Scratch Cards, Casinos or Cards etc.
are not acceptable for discussion. The group's language is English.
The group does not allow any betting in any way or form to be conducted
on the group itself.
ADVERTISING
Advertising is forbidden.
BINARIES & FORMATTING
Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are forbidden.
Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a pointer may be
posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used where
authentication is important and should be as short as possible.
Posts must be readable as plaintext. HTML, RTF and similarly formatted
messages are prohibited. To see how to make your newsreader comply with
this, read <http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html>.
Warning
Anyone posting contrary to this charter may be reported to their
"postmaster" and/or Service Provider.
END APPROVED CHARTER
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This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on behalf
of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties.
The rules under which votes for the uk.* hierarchy are taken are posted
regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL:
ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting
The UKVoting web pages can be found at http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to
uk.net.news.announce.
Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control@usenet.org.uk.
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