Path: oaktree.co.uk!psiuk-f4!psiuk-p4!uknet!news.vas-net.net!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-feed.riddles.org.uk!usenet.org.uk!not-for-mail From: ukvoting@amigo.co.uk (David Mahon) Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.sport.horseracing,uk.sport.golf,uk.sport.misc,uk.rec.gambling.misc Subject: RESULT: uk.sport.betting PASSES Followup-To: uk.net.news.config Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:38:39 +0100 Message-ID: Sender: Control Approved: Control X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP uk.net.news.announce iQCVAwUBOaNxcWOfGXkh8vHZAQHeiQQAiU+I9aqYiBgsQd88dVOQ6LULqop4D0Xg RbJhbhdsJgEQmtUlouHwFQZ/ejSWDZeHv6GuVaCDZON98T+PvVkEhjdsA2p8UMy+ InnVYEYai4QXHsDPnJvBu+yN60Ec02jM8ydpSIsLxy8rmcAlp/vPswJunxMXsE9b 9Hhdnu21DMk= =e+k7 Lines: 370 Xref: oaktree.co.uk uk.net.news.announce:1897 uk.net.news.config:94503 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES Create uk.sport.betting: PASSES - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Voting began Friday 28 July 2000 Voting closed Friday 18 August 2000 23:59:59 BST Proponent: Steve Morris Votetaker: David Mahon - -------------------------------------------------------------------- These results have been posted to the following newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce uk.net.news.config uk.sport.horseracing uk.sport.golf uk.sport.misc uk.rec.gambling.misc - -------------------------------------------------------------------- RESULTS COUNTING The four options were: 1) Create uk.sport.betting (USB) create new newsgroup 2) Create uk.rec.sportsbetting (URS) create new newsgroup 3) Status Quo (SQ) no new newsgroup 4) Re-open Discussion (ROD) discussion reopens STAGE ONE - Options compared to Status Quo: USB preferred to SQ by 69 : 15 (3 abstentions / no preference) URS preferred to SQ by 68 : 15 (4 abstentions / no preference) ROD preferred to SQ by 54 : 15 (18 abstentions / no preference) All options beat status quo by at least 12 votes and so continue... STAGE TWO - Remaining options compared with each other USB is preferred to URS by 62 : 18 (7 abstentions / no preference) USB is preferred to ROD by 71 : 15 (1 abstention / no preference) URS is preferred to ROD by 68 : 16 (3 abstentions / no preference) USB was preferred to all the other options, and had a majority of more than twelve over the Status Quo, therefore the group is created with the charter as given below. There were a total of 87 valid votes. There will be a five day discussion period after these results have been posted before the group is created to allow for any allegations of irregularities to be raised. The Rationale, Summary of Discussion and Charter follow the main results for informational purposes. RAW PREFERENCES GRID USB URS ROD SQ USB [ na ] [ 62 ] [ 71 ] [ 69 ] winner URS [ 18 ] [ na ] [ 68 ] [ 68 ] ROD [ 15 ] [ 16 ] [ na ] [ 54 ] SQ [ 15 ] [ 15 ] [ 15 ] [ na ] In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option appropriate to the number's column. For instance, 69 votes preferred USB to SQ while 16 votes preferred ROD to URS. OPPOSITE COMPARISONS GRID USB URS ROD SQ USB [ na ] [ 44 ] [ 56 ] [ 54 ] winner URS [-44 ] [ na ] [ 52 ] [ 53 ] ROD [-56 ] [-52 ] [ na ] [ 39 ] SQ [-54 ] [-53 ] [-39 ] [ na ] In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option appropriate to the number's column less the number of votes which were cast that preferred the option named in the number's column to the option appropriate to the number's row. For example, 44 more people preferred USB to URS than preferred URS to USB, and 39 more people preferred ROD to SQ than preferred SQ to ROD. The winning option in the absolute table is that where all the numbers in its row are higher than the number in the equivalent position in its column. The winning option in the relative table is that which has all positive numbers in its row and all negative numbers in its column. (On this ballot, this is USB). - -------------------------------------------------------------------- THE RESULTS IN FULL SQ (status quo)-------------------------------------------------+-+-+-+ ROD (re-open discussion)----------------------------------------+-+-+ | URS (uk.rec.sportsbetting)--------------------------------------+-+ | | USB (uk.sports.betting)-----------------------------------------+ | | | | | | | Name Email Address | | | | Alan Catherall alan*acatherall.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 - - Alan Fisher tgaf*redhotant#moc 1 2 - - Alex Holden votes*big-pants.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 3 Alex Kryptonite alex*kryptonite.fsnet#oc#ku 2 1 3 4 Andrew Hartley andrew*eastupham.freeserve#oc#ku 4 4 2 1 Andrew Stoker andrew*peek-a-boo#gro#ku - - 2 1 Andy Mabbett andy*pigsonthewing#gro#ku - - 1 2 Anne Ramkaran anne*ramkaran.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 - Arthur Llugeas allugeas*hotmail#moc 1 2 3 4 B.Price bazzep*madasafish#moc 1 2 3 4 Barry Kenny barry.kenny*btinternet#moc 1 2 4 4 Bob Hitchcock bob*bobhitch.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Brian Black brian*jblack.freeserve#oc#ku 2 1 4 3 Charles Lindsey chl*clw.cs.man#ca#ku 1 2 - 1 chris chris*coddieuk.f9#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Chris M. Dickson chris*dickson.demon#oc#ku 2 1 3 4 Chris Mac chris.mcilfatrick*which#ten 1 2 3 - Christopher G Brannigan c.g.brannigan*btinternet#moc 1 2 3 4 Dark Horse dave.benham*virgin#ten 1 2 3 4 Darren Moulding fatman*dipso.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Dave Hillam dave*hbarnet.freeserve#oc#ku - 2 1 - Dave Mayall david.mayall*ukonline#oc#ku 4 3 2 1 Dave Roberts dave*smartproof#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 dave thorn davethorn*karvid.demon#oc#ku 1 2 4 4 davey_brown davey_brown*ntlworld#moc 1 2 3 4 David Smart bigsmart*djsmart.fsnet#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Eddie Bernard usenet*ebernard.greatxscape#ten 1 2 3 4 ewilliams ewilliams*nescot#ca#ku 2 1 3 4 Firebeast firebeast*firebeast.worldonline#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 G-Man gman*redhotant#moc 1 2 - - Gary Partington g.partington*talk21#moc 1 2 - - Geoff (Blade Runner) black-dog*geocities#moc 1 2 3 4 gordon ross gordon.ross*greenstyle.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Graham Drabble graham.drabble*lineone#ten 4 3 1 2 Guy Morgan guy*first-light-services#oc#ku 4 1 3 2 Hugh Taylor hutay*globalnet#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Iain Bowen alaric*alaric#gro#ku 4 1 2 3 Iain Simpson iws*dial.pipex#moc 1 2 3 4 Ian Chard ichard*cadence#moc 1 4 2 3 Ian Neeson john_smith_jr*lineone#ten 1 2 3 4 Ian Wheldale wheldale*bigfoot#moc 1 2 4 3 InsideSix insidesix*aol#moc 1 2 4 4 Jack Howard jack.howard*stormshadow#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 James Bridson james*socrates.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 James Coupe james*zephyr#gro#ku 4 3 2 1 Jan jan*firebeast.worldonline#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Jim Hill vote-sportbet*jhc#gro#ku 4 3 2 1 John L jl*cromwellmedia#oc#ku 1 4 2 3 John Muckles joe*muckles.fsnet#oc#ku 1 2 - - john turnbull helen*jturnbull.fsnet#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Jon Thomson jon*thomson2273.freeserve#oc#ku 2 1 3 4 Keith Willoughby keith*flat222#gro 1 2 3 4 Kevin Leary kleary91*aol#moc 1 2 - - Linda Catherall linda*thebridgeproject.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 - - Mal Davies MalDDD*aol#moc 1 2 3 4 Malcolm Wright fantrace*aol#moc 1 2 3 4 Mark Goodge mark*good-stuff#oc#ku 1 1 3 4 Martin Ludgate editor*navvies.demon#oc#ku 2 1 3 3 MartinK Martink*kss.win-uk#ten 1 2 3 4 mbourgaize flik*redhotant#moc 1 2 3 4 michael michael*caliver.demon#oc#ku 1 2 4 3 Mike Bergquist bergquist*btinternet#moc 1 4 4 4 Mike Henry mike*tw2#moc 4 4 1 1 Molly Mockford molly*mockfords.clara#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Nick Regan nick*nregan#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 nick white nick.white*cwcom#ten 1 2 3 4 P D Store paul*greystones.ezesurf#oc#ku 1 3 2 4 Paul Paul*xebon.clara#oc#ku 4 3 2 1 Paul Aitman aitman*crosswinds#ten 1 2 3 4 Paul Leake P.J.Leake*durham#ca#ku - - - - Paul Rush PUFC*btinternet#moc 1 2 3 4 Peter Munn pmunnsub*pearce-neptune.demon#oc#ku 2 1 3 1 Philip Powell philip*blencathra#gro#ku 4 1 2 3 Richard Kettlewell rjk+sportbet*sfere.greenend#gro#ku 4 3 1 2 Rob Bain rob*thebain.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 - - Ronan Flood ronan*noc.ulcc#ca#ku 1 2 4 3 Rosso r.ovland*virgin#ten 1 2 3 4 Simon Cruddace sbc1*btinternet#moc 1 2 3 4 Steve Bain steve*thebain.freeserve#oc#ku 1 2 - - Stuart O'Donnell spod*venicones.demon#oc#ku 4 3 2 1 Sue Bergquist suebergquist*btinternet#moc 1 4 4 4 Suzanne Eason suzanne*darob.demon#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Thomas Lee tfl*psp#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Tim Walls tim*snowgoons.fsnet#oc#ku 1 2 3 4 Tobias erle torex*kholdan#ed 1 4 2 3 Tony tony*tagman.demon#oc#ku 1 1 2 3 Tony Ferris tony*silmart.demon#oc#ku 1 2 4 3 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- VOTETAKER'S COMMENTS: This was my first vote and it seems to have been fairly busy. In total there were 104 votes - 87 valid votes, 16 invalid votes and 1 duplicate (re-vote). Of the 16 invalid votes (by 12 people), 7 subsequently submitted a valid vote leaving 5 spoiled. One problem did come to light concerning a bug in Outlook Express - any voter suffering from an invalid vote due to it was given instructions on how to overcome it. Only one voter with such a problem failed to even try and resubmit a valid vote. One vote was submitted as a word attachment. After virus and trojan scanning it was opened and accepted. In future, however, I am likely to reject votes sent in such a manner as invalid. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- NEWSGROUPS LINE: uk.sport.betting All aspects of sports betting from a UK view - -------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPONENT'S RATIONALE: Whilst there are groups to cover individual sports, the discussion of other non-related sports is frowned upon. There are also groups dedicated to gambling, but these are aimed more at the professional gambler, and games of chance. The aim of this group is to provide a like-minded community for the 'Joe average' UK betting enthusiast, to enable all UK sports betting enthusiasts to debate the merits or otherwise of all sport around the world, from a UK betting angle. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPONENT'S SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION: After continued lengthy discussion in uk.net.news.config the general discussion has continued to be more about personality clashes and petty name calling, rather than focusing on the subject at hand, from both sides. The majority of posts agreed that the two suggestions uk.sport.betting or uk.rec.sportsbetting may be the right place for this group, and that there is a definite need for this group. Some have maintained their suggestion that the uk.rec.gambling group covers the need of the potential users. There was a strong resistance to this idea amongst potential users of the proposed group after the first RFD, and that feeling is still the same now. The continued suggestion that the proposed group be placed in the gambling hierarchy, has been considered, and considered at some length. Yet I still feel the two options of uk.sport.betting and uk.rec.sportsbetting are the best way forward. The latter suggestion being one of the suggestions to come from the first RFD, and came from those opposed to the originally proposed group. I think the best suggestion came from a post that pointed this out "Personally, I'm persuaded that uk.sport.betting is acceptable. I agree that, taxonomically, it's less than ideal, but I think that this is one of the situations where it's better to get it "approximately right". As the naming guidelines put it: 'Group similar subjects together, in the same hierarchy if possible, so that people looking for a related subject will have a good idea where to find it. It is often better to put a new group with others in an approximately right "place" than to insist on getting the name precise at the expense of putting the group in a different area that many potential users will not look at. Remember that newsgroup names are not 'judgmental' - placing uk.media.books.sf under uk.media.* rather than uk.arts.* is in no way trying to say that science fiction books are not art, rather it is accepting that placing a group to talk about such books near to a group to talk about science fiction television makes both groups easier to find with reference to each other.' In this case, uk.rec.gambling.* would be the "precise" positioning, but I think it's fair to say that many of the potential users would not think of looking there. To paraphrase the guidelines, placing uk.sport.betting under uk.sport doesn't imply that sport betting isn't gambling, rather that placing a group to discuss such gambling near a group to talk about other sport-related topics makes it easier to find with reference to sport." I now feel even more confident that the two name choices are the correct choices. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- APPROVED CHARTER: uk.sport.betting The group is a forum for the discussion of any and all issues relating to any sports worldwide and the betting on those sports from a UK viewpoint. The scope of the group covers all aspects relating to sports, betting and betting systems, training, analysis of form and breeding, locations, elements affecting the sport etc. and should enable any UK betting enthusiast to compare experiences and share information and predictions relating to any sport. Betting mediums relying more on chance, such as Bingo, Lotteries, Scratch Cards, Casinos or Cards etc. are not acceptable for discussion. The group's language is English. The group does not allow any betting in any way or form to be conducted on the group itself. ADVERTISING Advertising is forbidden. BINARIES & FORMATTING Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are forbidden. Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a pointer may be posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used where authentication is important and should be as short as possible. Posts must be readable as plaintext. HTML, RTF and similarly formatted messages are prohibited. To see how to make your newsreader comply with this, read . Warning Anyone posting contrary to this charter may be reported to their "postmaster" and/or Service Provider. END APPROVED CHARTER - -------------------------------------------------------------------- This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting. UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties. The rules under which votes for the uk.* hierarchy are taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting The UKVoting web pages can be found at http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/ There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to uk.net.news.announce. 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