25 Jul 1996: Create uk.politics.general, alter charter uk.politics.misc

RESULT: uk.politics.{general|debate|arena|open-forum}[-1] mixed results
Author:   Iain D. Bowen 
Email: voting@harlech.demon.co.uk 
Date: 1996/07/25 
Forums: uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.politics.announce, uk.politics.misc, alt.politics.british  
Message-ID:   <result-uk.politics.general-960725-210004@usenet.org.uk> 



Creation of new newsgroup uk.politics.{general|arena|debate|open-forum}[-1]

Voting closed 23:59:59 GMT, 22nd July 1996.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UK-VOTING. 
UK-VOTING is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFV's in
the uk hierarchy. The rules under which this vote was taken are posted 
regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL:

For voting questions only contact voting@harlech.demon.co.uk (Iain Bowen).

For questions about the proposed new newsgroups contact the proposers who 
who are: 
        T Bruce Tober <octobersdad@reporters.net>, 
	Angus Gulliver <a.w.r.gulliver@herts.ac.uk>
	jon ivar skullerud <jonivar@th.ph.ed.ac.uk>

Summary: Creation of uk.politics.general 	FAILS  32:36 
	 uk.politics.misc's charter change 	PASSES 35:13

Distribution: uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.politics.announce,
	      uk.politics.misc, alt.politics.british

Newsgroup line:
	uk.politics.general   General unrestricted UK political debate

	There is a demand for a group where UK political issues
	can be discussed in a wide-ranging manner, taking into
	account the interconnection between all different issues
	in politics.

	The specialist subject groups uk.politics.economics,
	uk.politics.constitution etc do not allow a discussion to
	wander easily between related topics.  Nor does 
	uk.politics.misc fill the role envisaged by this group.
	According to the charter of uk.politics.misc, it is
	restricted to those topics that are not covered by any
	of the more specialised groups.  Specifically, a
	discussion that drifts from the topic of one subgroup
	to that of another can not take place on uk.politics.misc, and
	there is also doubt as to whether discussions covering the
	topics of several subgroups are allowed.

	It is not proposed to remove uk.politics.misc, since it
	will continue to have a function distinct from that of
	this group, as a home for those subjects that do not
	(yet) have a specialist subgroup.
	This group is aimed primarily at all who are seriously and
	deeply interested in politics, and is open to posters from the
	UK and elsewhere as long as the issues pertain to the UK.

	If traffic becomes too heavy on this group, it will not
	be split according to subject matter, since this would
	merely duplicate the existing uk.politics subgroups.  
	Instead, it may be split into two or more groups with the 
	same charter, but with crossposting between these groups 
	prohibited.  In this way, those with a general interest
	in politics but without the time to follow all of the
	discussion taking place, can follow general debate within
	the limited context of one subgroup.
	This may have to involve automoderation to enforce crossposting
	rules, and to balance out the traffic on the different parallel
	groups. The proposal to call the group
	uk.politics.general-1|arena-1|debate-1 is intended to make it
	possible to create additional group without any major
	reorganisation.  The open-forum proposal allows new groups
	to be created as forum-1, forum-2 etc.

	If the proposal to create this group fails, uk.politics.misc
	will de facto become the group for general discussion, even
	though the current charter does not allow for this.  Therefore,
	it is proposed to reword the charter for uk.politics.misc to
	allow discussion of all topics as an alternative to creating
	a new group.


CHARTER: ( uk.politics.{general|arena|debate|open-forum} )
	uk.politics.general is a group aimed at wide ranging
	discussion, the only restriction being that issues discussed
	must be of a political nature. The group is expected to
	concentrate on the politics of or affecting the UK, and is
	open to posters from outside the UK as well as within it.

	Excessive crossposting is inappropriate.  Crossposting to
	other groups in the uk.politics.* hierarchy MUST be
	on-topic for those groups, and is generally discouraged
	because of the likelihood of subject drift.  Crossposting to
	more than two special-topic uk.politics.* groups, or to
	uk.politics.misc and special-topic group(s) simultaneously is
	not allowed.  Crossposting to more than a total of 4 groups 
	(including this one) is strongly discouraged.
	 Is forbidden, except that short (less than 20 lines)
	 announcements of relevant events are allowed.

	Binaries (apart from PGP signatures) are not permitted, but 
	directions as to where binaries may be found are welcomed.



The following list of addresses is copyright 1996 by the Revolutionary
Penguin Press(1985).  Use for any purpose other than verifying the vote
for this newsgroup is prohibited.

Question 1: 	Create new group for general politics discussion?

Question 3:	Do you wish the charter of uk.politics.misc to be altered
    		to allow all kinds of general discussion?

The results for Question 2 were not processed due to the failure of 
Question 1.

Votes Processed
							1	3
							-	-

abelard@abelard.demon.co.uk	"Abelard"		Y	Y
alan.ralph@ukonline.co.uk 	Alan Ralph		Y	-
Alessio@valdena.demon.co.uk	Alessio			Y
Ancient.ucs@durham.ac.uk	Matthew Cuncliffe	-	Y
angus@spuddy.mew.co.uk 		Gulliver		Y	-
arwel@cartref.demon.co.uk	Arwel Parry		-       Y
brooke@mail.zynet.co.uk		J W B Greenwood		Y	-
carrs@dial.pipex.com 		Steven Carr		N	Y
catpm1bc@m22.herts.ac.uk	"Mangat"		Y	-
chl@clw.cs.man.ac.uk 		Charles Lindsey		-	N
chris@loncps.demon.co.uk	Chris Salter		Y	N
crn@netix.telecall.co.uk	C  Newport		N	Y
Claire.Speed@mailhost.mcc.ac.uk Claire Speed		Y	-
DMorris@specmp.co.uk		David Morris		N	Y
D.S.Toube@qmw.ac.uk 		David Toube		N	Y
dave@darob.ftech.co.uk		Dave Roberts		N	Y
dave@xemu.demon.co.uk		Dave Bird		N	Y
david@barnsdle.demon.co.uk	David Barnsdale		Y	N
david@election.demon.co.uk	David Boothroyd		N	N
david@leguer.demon.co.uk	David Chamberlain	N	Y
doriordan@rcseng.ac.uk		Dermot O'Riordan	N	Y
dweller@ramtops.demon.co.uk	Doug Weller		Y	-
				Guy Barry		N	Y
Giles@pope1.demon.co.uk		"Farmer Giles"		Y	Y
gre@mtits.co.uk			Gwyn Evans		N	N
grovesa@starbase1.caltech.edu	Andrew Groves		N	Y
huge@axalotl.demon.co.uk	Hugh Davies		N	Y
ian.gitlin@bcs.org.uk 		Ian Gitlin		Y	-
ian@tanagra.demon.co.uk		Ian Chard		N	Y
idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk 		Illtud Daniel		Y	-
ikr2@leicester.ac.uk		I.K. Ridley		N	N
ivor@club.demon.co.uk		Ivor Peksa		N	N
iwan@iwilliams.compulink.co.uk	Iwan Williams		Y	-
ja56@dial.pipex.com		Kevin Lee		N	Y
jacksoro@eee2.bham.ac.uk 	Robert Jackson		N	N
Jason.Grossman@ucs.cam.ac.uk 	Jason Grossman		N	-
JEREMY@jbark.demon.co.uk	Jeremy Barker		Y
john@thebeard.demon.co.uk	John Robinson		Y	Y
jonivar@th.ph.ed.ac.uk		Jon Ivar Skullerud	Y	-
jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk					N	Y
Kevin@wimber.demon.co.uk	Kevin Hasler		N	Y
lapfh@csv.warwick.ac.uk		Nich Evans		N       N
lyn@stuffing.demon.co.uk	Lyn David Thomas	Y	N
marsland@liverpool.ac.uk	Dr J.S. Marsland	-	Y
martin@mchunt.demon.co.uk	Martin Hunt		Y	-
mbm@mort.demon.co.uk		Malcolm Mladenovic	-       -
mcpheat@phys.strath.ac.uk	Robert McPheat		N	N
michael@cavrdg.demon.co.uk	Michael Parry		N	Y
mike@mikecat.demon.co.uk	Mike Cattell		Y	-
msr16@cus.cam.ac.uk		M.S. Robb		Y	Y
nigel@ashton.demon.co.uk	Nigel Ashton		N	Y
octobersdad@reporters.net	T Bruce Tober		Y	-
pb10003@cam.ac.uk 		Paul Bolchover		N	Y
Paul@elsinore.demon.co.uk	Paul Leader		N	Y
Paul@mccombes.demon.co.uk	Paul McCombes		Y	Y
richard@horizon.co.uk		Richard Ashton		N	N
richard@turnpike.com		Richard Clayton		N	N
rmacmillan@cix.compulink.co.uk 	Robert Macmillan	N	Y
rod@ellery.demon.co.uk 		Rod Ellery		-       -
Roger@ducks.demon.co.uk 	"Roger"			Y	-
rpjs@stilling.ftech.co.uk 	Roy Stilling		Y	Y
rrl@minfo.demon.co.uk 		R Ross-Langley		N	Y
simon@star-one.org.uk		Simon Gray		Y	-
simonp@morgan.com		Peter Simon		Y	-
sjt@for.mat.bham.ac.uk 		Sam J. Turner		Y	-
slewin@zetnet.co.uk		Steve Lewin		N	Y
smusmtaj@reading.ac.uk		Andrew John Smith	N	Y
steve@kalika.demon.co.uk	Stephen Kennedy		Y	-
steve.glover@ukonline.co.uk 	Steve Glover		Y	N
swfb@bokop.win-uk.net		S.W.F. Borthwick	-       -
telecom@dircon.co.uk 		Steve Ellwood		Y	Y
				Tim Shuttleworth	Y	-
tfl@psp.co.uk			Thomas Lee		N	Y
u4d14@cc.keele.ac.uk		Julian White		N	-
zakalwe@vision25.demon.co.uk	"Cheradenine Zakalwe"	N	Y

Votes In Error
james@tardis.ed.ac.uk		Used invalid CFV
PostMaster@valdena.demon.co.uk	Banned multi-user username

Votetaker Comments: 

Firstly, I managed to forget to put the real name box on the CFV, therefore, 
I felt obliged to drop the requirement for a real name or regularly used 
nom-de-plume. It is hard to judge how this would have effected the result, but
if I had used this rule, I would have only discarded one vote and that person
may well have filled in their name/nom de plume.

Secondly, a ballot had to be discarded because it was sent in on a ballot that
had been included in a CFV which had been heavily edited in a manner that 
would bias the casting of ballots and was then reposted to uk.politics.misc. 
The solitary discarded vote from this CFV did not effect the result. Luckily, 
there was an editing mistake on the ballot form by the culprit which made 
such votes easy to track.

Thirdly, whilst the RFD for changes to the guidelines is still progressing, I 
think that I am justified in not allowing a vote from a postmaster address on 
a demon subdomain when I already have a vote from that subdomain. The solitary
discarded vote from this did not affect the overall result. 

Fourthly, far too many people sent back the entire CFV as opposed
to just the ballot, I suspect that the instructions there are a little 
vague, any suggestions? Don't do this folks, it makes my mailbox soggy and
hard to light.

Ultimately, the people who are shown as abstaining
twice had usually voted on question 2 (which was not counted as question 1
had failed). 

Iain D. Bowen  - Volunteer Votetaker, UK-VOTING.   voting@harlech.demon.co.uk
please use alaric@harlech.demon.co.uk for personal mail.

You can also see the raw article.
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