RESULT: uk.politics.{general|debate|arena|open-forum}[-1] mixed results Author: Iain D. Bowen Email: voting@harlech.demon.co.uk Date: 1996/07/25 Forums: uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.politics.announce, uk.politics.misc, alt.politics.british Message-ID: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RESULT Creation of new newsgroup uk.politics.{general|arena|debate|open-forum}[-1] Voting closed 23:59:59 GMT, 22nd July 1996. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UK-VOTING. UK-VOTING is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFV's in the uk hierarchy. The rules under which this vote was taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting For voting questions only contact voting@harlech.demon.co.uk (Iain Bowen). For questions about the proposed new newsgroups contact the proposers who who are: T Bruce Tober , Angus Gulliver jon ivar skullerud Summary: Creation of uk.politics.general FAILS 32:36 uk.politics.misc's charter change PASSES 35:13 Distribution: uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.politics.announce, uk.politics.misc, alt.politics.british Newsgroup line: uk.politics.general General unrestricted UK political debate --------------------------------------------------------------------------- RATIONALE: There is a demand for a group where UK political issues can be discussed in a wide-ranging manner, taking into account the interconnection between all different issues in politics. The specialist subject groups uk.politics.economics, uk.politics.constitution etc do not allow a discussion to wander easily between related topics. Nor does uk.politics.misc fill the role envisaged by this group. According to the charter of uk.politics.misc, it is restricted to those topics that are not covered by any of the more specialised groups. Specifically, a discussion that drifts from the topic of one subgroup to that of another can not take place on uk.politics.misc, and there is also doubt as to whether discussions covering the topics of several subgroups are allowed. It is not proposed to remove uk.politics.misc, since it will continue to have a function distinct from that of this group, as a home for those subjects that do not (yet) have a specialist subgroup. This group is aimed primarily at all who are seriously and deeply interested in politics, and is open to posters from the UK and elsewhere as long as the issues pertain to the UK. If traffic becomes too heavy on this group, it will not be split according to subject matter, since this would merely duplicate the existing uk.politics subgroups. Instead, it may be split into two or more groups with the same charter, but with crossposting between these groups prohibited. In this way, those with a general interest in politics but without the time to follow all of the discussion taking place, can follow general debate within the limited context of one subgroup. This may have to involve automoderation to enforce crossposting rules, and to balance out the traffic on the different parallel groups. The proposal to call the group uk.politics.general-1|arena-1|debate-1 is intended to make it possible to create additional group without any major reorganisation. The open-forum proposal allows new groups to be created as forum-1, forum-2 etc. If the proposal to create this group fails, uk.politics.misc will de facto become the group for general discussion, even though the current charter does not allow for this. Therefore, it is proposed to reword the charter for uk.politics.misc to allow discussion of all topics as an alternative to creating a new group. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- CHARTER: ( uk.politics.{general|arena|debate|open-forum} ) uk.politics.general is a group aimed at wide ranging discussion, the only restriction being that issues discussed must be of a political nature. The group is expected to concentrate on the politics of or affecting the UK, and is open to posters from outside the UK as well as within it. Crossposting: Excessive crossposting is inappropriate. Crossposting to other groups in the uk.politics.* hierarchy MUST be on-topic for those groups, and is generally discouraged because of the likelihood of subject drift. Crossposting to more than two special-topic uk.politics.* groups, or to uk.politics.misc and special-topic group(s) simultaneously is not allowed. Crossposting to more than a total of 4 groups (including this one) is strongly discouraged. Advertising: Is forbidden, except that short (less than 20 lines) announcements of relevant events are allowed. Binaries: Binaries (apart from PGP signatures) are not permitted, but directions as to where binaries may be found are welcomed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- FINAL VOTING ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS The following list of addresses is copyright 1996 by the Revolutionary Penguin Press(1985). Use for any purpose other than verifying the vote for this newsgroup is prohibited. Question 1: Create new group for general politics discussion? Question 3: Do you wish the charter of uk.politics.misc to be altered to allow all kinds of general discussion? The results for Question 2 were not processed due to the failure of Question 1. Votes Processed ---------------- 1 3 - - abelard@abelard.demon.co.uk "Abelard" Y Y alan.ralph@ukonline.co.uk Alan Ralph Y - Alessio@valdena.demon.co.uk Alessio Y Ancient.ucs@durham.ac.uk Matthew Cuncliffe - Y angus@spuddy.mew.co.uk Gulliver Y - arwel@cartref.demon.co.uk Arwel Parry - Y brooke@mail.zynet.co.uk J W B Greenwood Y - carrs@dial.pipex.com Steven Carr N Y catpm1bc@m22.herts.ac.uk "Mangat" Y - chl@clw.cs.man.ac.uk Charles Lindsey - N chris@loncps.demon.co.uk Chris Salter Y N crn@netix.telecall.co.uk C Newport N Y Claire.Speed@mailhost.mcc.ac.uk Claire Speed Y - DMorris@specmp.co.uk David Morris N Y D.S.Toube@qmw.ac.uk David Toube N Y dave@darob.ftech.co.uk Dave Roberts N Y dave@xemu.demon.co.uk Dave Bird N Y david@barnsdle.demon.co.uk David Barnsdale Y N david@election.demon.co.uk David Boothroyd N N david@leguer.demon.co.uk David Chamberlain N Y doriordan@rcseng.ac.uk Dermot O'Riordan N Y dweller@ramtops.demon.co.uk Doug Weller Y - gbarry@gibson.bathl.westnet.net.uk Guy Barry N Y Giles@pope1.demon.co.uk "Farmer Giles" Y Y gre@mtits.co.uk Gwyn Evans N N grovesa@starbase1.caltech.edu Andrew Groves N Y huge@axalotl.demon.co.uk Hugh Davies N Y ian.gitlin@bcs.org.uk Ian Gitlin Y - ian@tanagra.demon.co.uk Ian Chard N Y idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk Illtud Daniel Y - ikr2@leicester.ac.uk I.K. Ridley N N ivor@club.demon.co.uk Ivor Peksa N N iwan@iwilliams.compulink.co.uk Iwan Williams Y - ja56@dial.pipex.com Kevin Lee N Y jacksoro@eee2.bham.ac.uk Robert Jackson N N Jason.Grossman@ucs.cam.ac.uk Jason Grossman N - JEREMY@jbark.demon.co.uk Jeremy Barker Y john@thebeard.demon.co.uk John Robinson Y Y jonivar@th.ph.ed.ac.uk Jon Ivar Skullerud Y - jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk N Y Kevin@wimber.demon.co.uk Kevin Hasler N Y lapfh@csv.warwick.ac.uk Nich Evans N N lyn@stuffing.demon.co.uk Lyn David Thomas Y N marsland@liverpool.ac.uk Dr J.S. Marsland - Y martin@mchunt.demon.co.uk Martin Hunt Y - mbm@mort.demon.co.uk Malcolm Mladenovic - - mcpheat@phys.strath.ac.uk Robert McPheat N N michael@cavrdg.demon.co.uk Michael Parry N Y mike@mikecat.demon.co.uk Mike Cattell Y - msr16@cus.cam.ac.uk M.S. Robb Y Y nigel@ashton.demon.co.uk Nigel Ashton N Y octobersdad@reporters.net T Bruce Tober Y - pb10003@cam.ac.uk Paul Bolchover N Y Paul@elsinore.demon.co.uk Paul Leader N Y Paul@mccombes.demon.co.uk Paul McCombes Y Y richard@horizon.co.uk Richard Ashton N N richard@turnpike.com Richard Clayton N N rmacmillan@cix.compulink.co.uk Robert Macmillan N Y rod@ellery.demon.co.uk Rod Ellery - - Roger@ducks.demon.co.uk "Roger" Y - rpjs@stilling.ftech.co.uk Roy Stilling Y Y rrl@minfo.demon.co.uk R Ross-Langley N Y simon@star-one.org.uk Simon Gray Y - simonp@morgan.com Peter Simon Y - sjt@for.mat.bham.ac.uk Sam J. Turner Y - slewin@zetnet.co.uk Steve Lewin N Y smusmtaj@reading.ac.uk Andrew John Smith N Y steve@kalika.demon.co.uk Stephen Kennedy Y - steve.glover@ukonline.co.uk Steve Glover Y N swfb@bokop.win-uk.net S.W.F. Borthwick - - telecom@dircon.co.uk Steve Ellwood Y Y Tim.Shuttleworth@mailhost.mcc.ac.uk Tim Shuttleworth Y - tfl@psp.co.uk Thomas Lee N Y u4d14@cc.keele.ac.uk Julian White N - zakalwe@vision25.demon.co.uk "Cheradenine Zakalwe" N Y Votes In Error -------------- james@tardis.ed.ac.uk Used invalid CFV PostMaster@valdena.demon.co.uk Banned multi-user username Votetaker Comments: Firstly, I managed to forget to put the real name box on the CFV, therefore, I felt obliged to drop the requirement for a real name or regularly used nom-de-plume. It is hard to judge how this would have effected the result, but if I had used this rule, I would have only discarded one vote and that person may well have filled in their name/nom de plume. Secondly, a ballot had to be discarded because it was sent in on a ballot that had been included in a CFV which had been heavily edited in a manner that would bias the casting of ballots and was then reposted to uk.politics.misc. The solitary discarded vote from this CFV did not effect the result. Luckily, there was an editing mistake on the ballot form by the culprit which made such votes easy to track. Thirdly, whilst the RFD for changes to the guidelines is still progressing, I think that I am justified in not allowing a vote from a postmaster address on a demon subdomain when I already have a vote from that subdomain. The solitary discarded vote from this did not affect the overall result. Fourthly, far too many people sent back the entire CFV as opposed to just the ballot, I suspect that the instructions there are a little vague, any suggestions? Don't do this folks, it makes my mailbox soggy and hard to light. Ultimately, the people who are shown as abstaining twice had usually voted on question 2 (which was not counted as question 1 had failed). -- Iain D. Bowen - Volunteer Votetaker, UK-VOTING. voting@harlech.demon.co.uk please use alaric@harlech.demon.co.uk for personal mail.