07 Jun 1999: uk.telecom.moderated
From: Alan Fleming <af@contract.co.uk>
Date: 7 Jun 1999 22:06:24 +0100
Subject: AMENDED RESULT - uk.telecom.moderated PASSES 82:57
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.config,uk.net.news.announce,uk.telecom
Votetaker's note: This amended result is being issued because I miscounted
one vote. Apologies for the inconvenience to all those concerned.
AMENDED RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES
Summary: uk.telecom.moderated vote
Creation of uk.telecom.moderated PASSES 82:57
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Voting closed at Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:59:59 BST
Proponent: peter@gradwell.com (Peter Gradwell)
Votetaker: af@contract.co.uk (Alan Fleming)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Distribution:
uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.telecom
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
The Results:
The results follow below in the following order:
1) Result
2) Particulars of the Vote
3) Votetakers comments
4) Voting and Appeal guidelines
5) Rationale & Charter
PROPOSAL - Creation of uk.telecom.moderated
YES = 82
NO = 57
ABSTAIN = 6
YES beat NO by a majority of 25 votes.
This is more than the +12 majority needed for the proposal to succeed.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
The Particulars of the Vote
YES VOTES
Anthony R. Gold tgold ;panix !moc
Alan Belbin durness ;netcomuk.co !ku
Alasdair Baxter alasdair ;dram.demon.co !ku
Alex Blamey alexnn2 ;blamey.freeserve.co !ku
Alex Holden votes ;alexh.clara.co !ku
Alexander Hemsley zandy ;hemsley.demon.co !ku
Andrew Le Prevost andrew ;leprevost !ten
Andrew Tringham telecom ;tringham.demon.co !ku
Andrew Wineberg A.Wineberg ;btinternet !moc
Anthony Naggs amn ;ubik.demon.co !ku
Arthur Pye apye ;arthurpye.demon.co !ku
Barry Oakley beo ;stepup.demon.co !ku
Barry Salter barrykas ;salterg.demon.co !ku
Brian J. Forster Brian ;bjforster.force9.co !ku
Brian White brian.white ;pobox !moc
Chris Boots chris ;boots.demon.co !ku
Chris Hunter chris-h ;monrepos.demon.co !ku
Chris Sumner uktmvote ;cpsumner.freeserve.co !ku
Chris Townley chris ;townleyc.demon.co !ku
Colin Price colin ;frogmore6.demon.co !ku
David Floyd david ;keynsham.demon.co !ku
David Habanec xchat ;iname !moc
David Marsh drmarsh ;bigfoot !moc
David Thornton david ;davidthornton !moc
Denis McMahon denis ;pickaxe.demon.co !ku
Dominic Young dominic.young ;lineone !ten
Don Carter don ;dc-train.demon.co !ku
Douglas Lewins abp ;orcc.demon.co !ku
Dragan Cvetkovic draganc ;soc.plym.ac !ku
Frank Bowles Frank.Bowles ;poboxes !moc
Gareth Davies garethd ;dial.pipex !moc
Geoff Clare gwc ;unisoft !moc
Gerard Alan Latham Gerard ;galatham.demon.co !ku
Graham Wilson graham ;dircon.co !ku
Grant Mason grant ;mason1.freeserve.co !ku
Harfynn Teuport teuport ;hotmail !moc
Henry Helliwell mort ;toth.org !ku
Ian Peattie ian ;john-richard.co !ku
Ian Sharp cfv ;sharpip.demon.co !ku
James Bellaire bellaire ;tk !moc
James Bryant James.Bryant ;marconicomms !moc
James Sears james ;acornusers !gro
Jane Anna Langley A.Langley ;uel.ac !ku
John A. Green u04jag.abdn ;zetnet.co !ku
John B Stock jbstock ;btinternet !moc
John C Prentice 9608226p ;udcf.gla.ac !ku
John C. Elliott herbie ;tesco !ten
John E Wynn john ;vetchfield.win-uk !ten
John Reid John.Reid ;jazza.demon.co !ku
Joseph Otten joe.otten ;virgin !ten
Julie Brandon julie-vote ;merp.demon.co !ku
Keith Brazington keith ;quetz.demon.co !ku
Kevin Andreoli kevin.andreoli ;btinternet !moc
Mark Killingback cuba ;globalnet.co !ku
Markus G. Kltzer mgk ;gmx.at
Martin G Bridges bridgesm ;logica !moc
Michael Parry michael ;cavrdg.demon.co !ku
Mike Alexander alexanm ;it.moray.gov !ku
Natthew Thomson matthewt ;fairplay.co !ku
neil p chue hong npch ;tardis.ed.ac !ku
Nick Leverton leveret ;warren.demon.co !ku
Peter Dent p-dent ;iboro.freeserve.co !ku
Peter McMinn uktmvote ;lemoncurry.cix.co !ku
Rajeev Gupte rajeev.gupte ;gecm !moc
Robert McKinney sms-robert ;usa !ten
Robert Wooley rob ;robert.woolley.easynet.co !ku
Ross Beresford ross ;bryson.demon.co !ku
Ross Younger wry20 ;cai.cam.ac !ku
Sak Wathanasin sw ;nan.co !ku
Seb Wills saw27 ;cam.ac !ku
Simon Gardner 666 ;hack.powernet.co !ku
Steve Dodd dirk ;loth.demon.co !ku
Steve Peake puppet ;dial.pipex !moc
Tim Clark T.Clark ;warwick.ac !ku
Tim Jackson tim_jackson ;bigfoot !moc
Tim Skinner tim ;palacecs.demon.co !ku
Tobias Erle vote-uk ;kholdan.snafu !ed
Tom Hughes tom ;compton !un
Tom Joyce T.M.Joyce ;durham.ac !ku
Tom Porter tom ;memories1.demon.co !ku
Tony Game tgame ;netcomuk.co !ku
Tony Wright tony ;yrl.co !ku
NO Votes
A. Lindsay uktmvote ;ananam.demon.co !ku
Alan J Pitcher alan ;picarium.demon.co !ku
Alasdair Allan x-static ;null !ten
Alex Hardisty alex ;pqm-cons.demon.co !ku
Charles Lindsey chl ;clw.cs.man.ac !ku
Charlie Freckleton charlie ;genest.demon.co !ku
Chris Davies chris ;roaima.demon.co !ku
Christian Hansen chris ;hansenhome.demon.co !ku
Conor O'Neill conor ;puddle.demon.co !ku
Darren Wyn Rees merlin ;A470.demon.co !ku
Dave G Smith dave ;pict.demon.co !ku
Dave Mayall david.mayall ;ukonline.co !ku
David Mahon dmahon ;amigo.demon.co !ku
Dermot O'Riordan dermot ;oriordan.co !ku
Doug Ritchie doug ;drpc.demon.co !ku
Edward King eaking ;ulape.demon.co !ku
Gareth Babb hick ;mojo !gro
Howard Orgel Howard.Orgel ;orgels.demon.co !ku
Ian Cox einstein ;enterprise !ten
James Coupe james ;obeah.demon.co !ku
jAmES Lawson chasm ;ccl4 !gro
Jeff Taylor voter ;clearview.cix.co !ku
Jim Ley jim ;jibbering !moc
John Wright jsw22 ;rl.ac !ku
Jon Plews jonplews ;dial.pipex !moc
Karel Hladky khladky ;khdesign.demon.co !ku
Keith Hood etlkeod ;etlxdmx.ericsson.se
Maga Tweed magawiska ;softhome !ten
Marc Cornelius cornelius ;vercor.demon.co !ku
Martin Durkin martin.durkin ;ntc.nokia !moc
Mike Clements mjc ;mchome.demon.co !ku
Mike Henry mike ;tw2 !moc
Nick Wynne nick ;beachyhd.demon.co !ku
Paul Bolchover pb10003 ;cus.cam.ac !ku
Paul Harrison valid.143.expires.990514 ;peharri.beon !ten
Paul Martin pm ;zetnet !ten
Peter Bruce news ;thule.demon.co !ku
Peter Corlett abuse ;verrine.demon.co !ku
Peter G. Strangman Peter ;adelheid.demon.co !ku
Peter Ilieve peter ;aldie.co !ku
Peter Moore peter.moore ;virgin !ten
Peter Parry peter ;wppltd.demon.co !ku
Peter Sumner peter ;sumnerp.demon.co !ku
Rich Wood rich ;ruh-bath.swest.nhs !ku
Richard Ashton richard ;corixia.demon.co !ku
Richard Clayton richard ;turnpike !moc
Richard Morris abuse ;the-pub.freeserve.co !ku
Robert Felton swinny ;cix.co !ku
Shane Matthews shane.matthews ;perseco.co !ku
Simon Bonnick simon ;trimcase !moc
Stephen Packer spacker ;iee !gro
Steve Randall steve ;pqm-cons.demon.co !ku
Steve Stacher zsnowman ;email !moc
Stuart Millington phupp ;wormhole.demon.co !ku
Sunil Sood news ;soods.freeserve.co !ku
Vartan Narinian v.narinian ;ic.ac !ku
William Boughton bill ;xencat.demon.co !ku
ABSTENTIONS
Andy Mabbett andy ;pigsonthewing.demon.co !ku
Billyboy billyboy ;gto.net !mo
Paul Womar Vote ;pwomar.demon.co !ku
Peter Gradwell peter ;gradwell !moc
Richard Kettlewell rjk ;greenend.org !ku
Simon Gray simon ;star-one.org !ku
REJECTED VOTES
Gloria Clarke gloriac ;nortelnetworks !moc
- - No name or address specified in message.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Votetakers Notes:
Another big vote this, and I couldn't tell which way it would go until
the end. Half a dozen people voted on both first and second CFV for
some reason.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes
on behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties.
The rules under which votes for the uk.* hierarchy are taken
are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the
following URL:
ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting
The UKVoting web pages can be found at http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to
uk.net.news.announce.
Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control@usenet.org.uk.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
PROPONENT'S SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION
An expectedly heated discussion surrounded this request with the main
topics being whether there was a need for the group. One argument was
whether the group would be duplicating uk.telecom, thus fragmenting the
discussion and rendering it's self useless. the second was whether the
rationale (that we needed a moderated group to seperate the wheat from
the chaffe), as valid, because traditional kill files were capable of
performing the same job of filtering, with out the 'big brother' aspects
of moderation.
Examples were given of many other groups who had duplicate 'misc' and
'moderated' groups, and were countered by numerous examples of good
kill-filing software. Those in the pro-moderation camp cited their
inability to filter and also their desire to have 'upstream' filtering
in place to save them the effort.
There was minor debate about items such as cross posting and whether to
moderate uk.telecom. The arguments re cross-posting were that it should
be permitted, but not excessively. With respect to moderating uk.telecom
(over creating uk.telecom.moderated), it was felt that this was not
relevant to the discussion of the creation of uk.telecom.moderated.
=================================================================
RATIONALE: uk.telecom.moderated
uk.telecom has enjoyed a lively amount of traffic and high quality
discussion since its founding. Within the past number of months the
group has attracted a large amount of spam, off-topic and malicious
posts and flooding attacks.
Whilst recent developments have meant that the level of noise has
reduced significantly, the proponent still feels that moderation is of
benefit to the group in order to maintain the signal level.
The discussion of the first RFD has indicated that current software may be
capable of dealing with such abuse, however, not everyone uses, nor is able
to use such software, and indeed, not everyone wants to spend time
maintaining a kill file - why should every reader have to do something
that moderators could do for all?
The creation of uk.telecom.moderated may seem to render uk.telecom
redundant. However, at this stage it is suggested that uk.telecom ought to
be left, and that a further decision should be made 3 months after the
creation of uk.telecom.moderated.
The proponent does not wish to moderate uk.telecom because he feels that
uk.telecom may be better dealt with by renaming, or by having a charter
defined and that with respect to his comment below (re comp.lang.perl.*),
he feels that a moderated group is required for 'high signal level'
discussion.
The proponent notes the comp.lang.perl.* news groups, where by there
exists a high signal to noise ratio in comp.lang.perl.moderated and a high
level of talk in comp.lang.perl.misc.
=================================================================
CHARTER: uk.telecom.moderated
uk.telecom.moderated is a group that operates in the spirit of
the original uk.telecom group. While some off-topic discussions may prove
valuable, the following topics should be focused on:
non-mobile uk telecom devices and systems;
uk telecom numbering schemes;
uk telecom providers;
Short press releases / announcements with pointers to urls;
Telecom services currently offered in the uk (e.g. ISDN, Home
Highway).
Telecom services which may in future be offered in the uk (e.g. Cable
modems) but only in the context of their telephony service
(i.e. not internet service).
Cordless telephony devices, of limited range, such as DECT based
devices.
The following are not on topic:
mobile uk telecom devices, systems and providers;
Official postings by members of the uk telephony providers and regulators
are most welcome;
The group shall not accept any binary postings, but references to ftp or
http sites are welcome;
Posts must be made in plain text format (i.e. Not HTML or MIME).
Advertising is not allowed, except in signatures, which should comply
with the appropriate standards.
Cross posting: a maximum additional 2 news groups is permitted, but with
the exception of administrative messages cross posts within the uk
hierachy are expressly not permitted.
As the uk.telecom mini-FAQ says:
"If you talk sense about telecoms you will not go far wrong".
END CHARTER.
=================================================================
MODERATOR INFO: uk.telecom.moderated
The group shall accept all posts which have passed moderation on the
following basis:
Each message must contain, either as a reply-to or from header one
routeable email address by which the moderators may contact the poster.
This email address must be given in a form that the moderators could
decode/manipulate/reform so that the moderators could contact the
poster.
All postings from addresses on a `white list' of established posters
will be posted to the group automatically.
All postings from addresses on a `black list' will be rejected
automatically.
All other posts shall go to human moderators. They may then be approved,
and thus posted. Or rejected on one of the following grounds:
off topic - the message is not relevant to uk telecom and should be
discussed elsewhere. If possible, the moderators will provide a
suggestion;
cross post - the message has been excessively cross posted;
charter - the message violates some other rule in the charter;
harassing - the message is of a harrasing nature and thus not suitable;
Where possible an explanation for all rejected posts shall be sent to
the author of the rejected post;
An automatic confirmation that the post is being considered for
inclusion shall be sent in response to every post considered by the
moderators. Readers will be able to disable this confirmation.
The moderators will take submissions at submit@uk-telecom.org.uk
A member may join the white list if they post 10 on topic articles to the
news group and they have not been black-listed in the previous 3 months,
or at the moderators discretion.
A member will join the blacklist, or be removed from the white list in the
following circumstances:
The person who has seriously or consistently violated the group's
charter.
In the event of serious abuse directed against the moderator,
If a poster forges newsgroup headers or gives a fake id.
In such a case, the moderator must immediately send the offender and the
"moderation board" a notice outlining the reason for this action. A person
disciplined in this manner has the right to demand that the moderator
posts a copy of this notice to the newsgroup for comment by other
subscribers.
In the event of there being no remaining moderators a request to remove
the group from usenet will be generated - due to the requirements of
Usenet (this is not a choice that the moderators have an alternative for).
Full details of the moderation procedure, including contact details
shall be available at http://www.uk-telecom.org.uk/ and posted to the
group monthly.
PROCEDURE FOR DEALING WITH COMPLAINTS:
Grievances should first be taken up with the moderator list
by email at moderators@uk-telecom.org.uk. If the issue is
not resolved to the person's satisfaction they can bring the
issue up to the "moderation board", to whom the moderators are
responsible, after the moderators are given sufficient time to
resolve the issue (at least 3 days, due to mail accessibility
and propagation delay issues).
The moderators will be responsible to a "moderation board". This
group acts as an oversight committee. They have no official
power, but are rather a publicly accessible mailing list where
people can air their grievances. It is to be understood that
bringing a post to this list is accepting the greater propagation
of the more public list.
If the "moderation board" decide that a moderator is indeed
abusing their power he will be removed from the list of moderators
or censured at their discretion.
The "moderation board" may be contacted via email to
board@uk-telecom.org.uk. You may join by sending an email to
board-subscribe@uk-telecom.org.uk.
END MODERATOR INFO.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Fleming
af@contract.co.uk
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