26 Jan 2000: Charter changes for various groups in uk.local.*
From: alan@whirlnet.co.uk (Alan Ford)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:40:33 GMT
Subject: RESULTS: Charter Changes for various groups in uk.local.* ALL FAIL
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.local.lothians,uk.local.north-wales,uk.local.nw-england,uk.local.south-wales
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RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES
Charter Changes of various groups in uk.local.* -- ALL FAIL :
uk.local.lothians FAILS 19:15:9
uk.local.north-wales FAILS 24:14:5
uk.local.nw-england FAILS 23:14:6
uk.local.south-wales FAILS 23:14:6
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Voting began Wednesday 29 December 1999
Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, Friday 21 January 2000
Proponant: andy@pigsonthewing.demon.co.uk (Andy Mabbett)
Votetaker: alan@whirlnet.co.uk (Alan Ford)
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DISTRIBUTION:
These results have been posted to:
uk.net.news.announce
uk.net.news.config
uk.local.lothians
uk.local.north-wales
uk.local.nw-england
uk.local.south-wales
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VOTING SUMMARY:
The Rationale, Summary of Discussion, and Proposal follow the main
results for informational purposes.
uk.local.south-wales ----------\
uk.local.nw-england -------\ |
uk.local.north-wales --\ | |
uk.local.lothians -\ | | |
| | | |
YES 19 24 23 23
NO 15 14 14 14
ABSTAIN 9 5 6 6
TOTAL 43 43 43 43
YES MAJORITY 4 10 9 9
There were a total of 43 valid votes, and no invalid votes. For all
groups YES narrowly beat NO, but none by the required majority of 12.
Therefore the proposed charter changes fail for all groups.
There will be a five day discussion period after these results have
been posted before the group is created to allow for any allegations
of irregularities to be raised.
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VOTETAKER'S COMMENTS:
This vote took a long time to come around, but it was completed without
any problems. And nobody made a mess of their ballot paper, which made
my life easier ;-)
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THE RESULTS IN FULL:
uk.local.south-wales ----------\
uk.local.nw-england -------\ |
uk.local.north-wales --\ | |
uk.local.lothians -\ | | |
| | | |
Aidan Folkes aidan@celestis@freeserve@OC@UK N N N N
Alan Fleming af@contract@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Alex Dawson alex@dawson@uea@ac@UK N N Y N
Alex Holden votes@alexh@clara@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing@demon@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Andy Roberts andyrobts@zetnet@OC@UK A Y A Y
Barry Salter ukvotes@salterg@demon@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Bill bill@billybubbles@demon@OC@UK N N N N
Bryan K bryank@btinternet@OCm A Y A Y
Charles Lindsey chl@clw@cs@man@ac@UK N N N N
Chris Bannister cj@clues@OCm Y Y Y Y
Chris Livsey cjl@ocrixon@demon@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Darren Griffin griffind@capital@UK@OCm A Y A A
Dave Clapham Dave@community-spirit@demon@OC@UK N N N N
Dave Thorn davet@tw2@OCm A A A Y
David D Miller ddmiller@compuserve@OCm Y Y Y Y
David Jackson david@middleroom@demon@OC@UK A A Y A
Duncan Dewar duncan@bute@org@UK Y Y Y Y
Ian Kitching systimk@bridge@anglia@ac@UK Y Y Y Y
Jezza jezza@hotwells@freeserve@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Jim Hill uklocal-charters@jhc@org@UK Y Y Y Y
Joe Higman Joe@higco@freeserve@OC@UK A A A A
Jon Thomson jon@thomson2273@freeserve@OC@UK Y Y Y A
Karl Stephen etav07@holyrood@hw@ac@UK Y Y Y Y
Lyn David Thomas lyn@stuffing@demon@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Mike Fleming mike@tauzero@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Nick Regan nick@nregan@OC@UK N N N N
Paul C@ Dickie pcd@bozzie@f9@OC@UK N N N N
Peter Alfredsen peteralf@softhome@net Y Y Y Y
Peter Parry Peter@wppltd@demon@OC@UK N N N N
Philip Powell philip@blencathra@demon@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Richard Clayton richard@turnpike@OCm N N N N
Richard Letts richard-vote@illuin@org A A A A
robbie robbie@arrakis@nu N N N N
ScottPA scottpa@bigfoot@OCm A Y Y Y
simon gray simon@star-one@org@UK Y Y Y Y
Simon Lamont otto@gizmo1@demon@OC@UK A A Y A
Steve Wright steve@wrightnet@demon@OC@UK Y Y Y Y
Stuart Baldwin stuart@boxatrix@demon@OC@UK N N N N
T Lee tfl@psp@OC@UK N N N N
Tez Burke burkesworks@lineone@net N N N N
tobias erle vote-uk@kholdan@snafu@de N Y N Y
Tony Towers tony@cats@tele2@OC@UK N N N N
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PROPONENT'S RATIONALE:
The committee have resolutely refused to apply the recent RFD to amend
uk.local.* charters, despite this hierarchies largest ever vote, with
the largest ever majority, of 170:12 (results announced as:
Message-ID: <result-uk.local-990306-225951@usenet.org.uk>
[...]
Date: 6 Mar 1999 23:00:55 -0000 )
to the charters for five newsgroups:
uk.local.lothians
uk.local.north-wales
uk.local.nw-england
uk.local.south-wales
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PROPONENT'S SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION:
Aside from the erroneous inclusion of uk.local.scot-highlands (which has
now been excluded from this CFV by common consent) the majority of the
debate was around the issue of whether or not the four group concerned
"allow advertising" (the stipulation in the original RFD which this RFD
seeks to apply correctly).
One or more posters appeared to confuse "advertising" with "commercial
advertising"; (the majority of posts to this effect came from one
person, who erroneously believed that "The original RFD as I saw it was
aimed against commercial advertising") clearly, group which prohibit
only the latter still allow other forms of advertising. The original RFD
*deliberately* did not distinguish between the two. In each of the
groups where "commercial" advertising is restricted or prohibited, some
other form of advertising is allowed. Since (some) advertising is
allowed, the disputed paragraph applies: the limited (e.g. non-
commercial) advertising /which is allowed/ in those groups must still be
relevant to any other groups to which it is cross- posted.
To clarify the proposal, here are the relevant parts of the four charters:
uk.local.lothians
Commercial advertising is expressly forbidden. Any Commercial
references in a signature file must not exceed 4 lines and must
not be the purpose of the post.
Since only /commercial/ advertising is banned, it follows that other
forms are allowed; the original RFD clearly applies to this charter.
uk.local.north-wales
Commercial advertising is unwelcome, although a company
reference in a signature not exceeding four lines is acceptable.
Announcements of community events or other information that is
of direct relevance to the people of North Wales are welcome.
Since only /commercial/ advertising is "unwelcome" (note: not "banned"),
it follows that other forms are allowed; the original RFD clearly
applies to this charter.
uk.local.nw-england
uk.local.nw-england is not intended to provide a channel for
advertising.
Modest statements of business interests in signatures attached
to articles that conform to the spirit of this charter are
acceptable.
This wording is vague, it is not clear that advertising is prohibited,
it follows that some advertising may be allowed; the original RFD
clearly applies to this charter.
uk.local.south-wales
Commercial advertising is un-welcome, although a company
reference in a signature not exceeding four lines is acceptable.
Since only /commercial/ advertising is "unwelcome" (note: not "banned"),
it follows that other forms are allowed; the original RFD clearly
applies to this charter.
Also, acting- Control made the claim that it was left to Control (sic)
to determine the meaning of "advertising". There is no such provision
in the guidelines.
One other matter concerned the provision of a Welsh translation of the
wording involved, for uk.local.north-wales and uk.local.south-wales;
clearly, since this RFD seeks to apply the original RFD correctly, such
a transition will again be used. acting- Control has stated that such a
translation is already available.
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PROPOSAL:
The disputed paragraph:
Note that the advertising of widely-available goods or services
is *not* relevant in this context, and that most uk.local.*
groups have restrictions on advertising, or prohibit it. Cross-
posted adverts, where allowed, must meet the requirements of the
charters of *all* groups involved.
will be added to the charters for the newsgroups:
uk.local.lothians
uk.local.north-wales
uk.local.nw-england
uk.local.south-wales
immediately below the paragraph limiting cross-posting, as per the vote
referred to above.
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This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs
in the uk hierarchy. The rules under which this vote is taken are
posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the
following URL:
ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to
uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to
control@usenet.org.uk.
The UKVoting web pages can be found at
http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/
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--
Alan Ford <alan@whirlnet.co.uk> <a.ford@ukvoting.org.uk>
UKVoting Votetaker
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