22 Nov 1999: uk.games.roleplay charter change
From: Brian Jones <brianjones@worcester.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:27:16 GMT
Subject: REPOST: RESULT - Change to the charter of uk.games.roleplay
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.games.roleplay
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RESULT - Change to the charter of uk.games.roleplay
Summary of results:
===================
PROPOSAL "A": Purpose of newsgroup
Proposal PASSES by 38 votes to 5
PROPOSAL "B":
The four options were: 1: Proposed by James Coupe
2: Proposed by David Damerell et al
Status Quo
Re-Open Discussion
STAGE ONE - Options compared to Status Quo:
Option 1 preferred to Status Quo by 23 votes to 18
Option 2 preferred to Status Quo by 36 votes to 8
Status Quo preferred to Re-Open Discussion by 30 votes to 10
Option 2 (the text proposed by David Damerell et al) is the only option
to beat Status Quo by 12 or more votes, accordingly it is the Condorcet
winner and Stage Two is not necessary.
PROPOSAL "C": Advertising
Proposal PASSES by 38 votes to 7
PROPOSAL "D": Binaries
Proposal PASSES by 32 votes to 10
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, 24th October 1999
Proponent: David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Votetaker: Brian Jones <votequestion@worcester.demon.co.uk>
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Distribution:
uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.games.roleplay
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Results:
The results follow below in the following order:
1) Results
2) Particulars of the Vote
3) Votetakers Comments
4) Voting and Appeal Guidelines
5) Rationale & Proposed Changes
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
RESULTS:
Votes were received from:
A. F. Simpson afs7~~le~ac~uk
A.J.Clark ajc4~~soton~ac~uk
Aaron Fuller fulleraaron~~ukonline~uk~co
Adam Benedict Canning siu99abc~~reading~ac~uk
Adam Hattrell adamh~~operamail~moc
Andy Leighton andyl~~azaal.dircon~uk~co
Andy Mabbett andy~~pigsonthewing~demon~uk~co
Brendan Murphy bmm~~brendanmurphy~demon~uk~co
Chris Haywood 113026.3515~~compuserve~moc
Chris Raistrick c.raistrick~~freeuk~ten
D. Stevens dstevens~~cableinet~uk~co
David Damerell damerell~~chiark.greenend~gro~uk
Eddie Cochrane eddiec~~cobrabay.freeserve~uk~co
Eugene Eugene.Mann~~ukgateway~ten
G T Kingston tkingston~~argonet~uk~co
Giles Williams giles.cfv2~~otranto~demon~uk~co
Guy Robinson Guy_Robinson~~bigfoot~moc
Henry Penninkilampi spamfree~~metropolis~ten~au
Ian Miller ism_4322~~bifroest~demon~uk~co
J M Kemp jas~~jmkemp~demon~uk~co
John Dallman jgd~~cix~uk~co
John Scott j.f.scott~~brighton~ac~uk
Jonathan David Price lw99jdp~~brunel~ac~uk
Lucy Ketcher jhs9lrk~~leeds~ac~uk
Marcus L. Rowland mrowland~~ffutures~demon~uk~co
Mark Tyndall mrt102~~york~ac~uk
Matthew Hambley snowyowl~~therealm.freeserve~uk~co
Matthew Vernon matthew~~debian~ro
Michael Lush mlush~~hgmp.mrc~ac~uk
Mr. Tines tines~~ravnaandtines~moc
Nick Eden nick~~pheasnt~demon~uk~co
Paul Leake P.J.Leake~~durham~ac~uk
Pete Lindsay pete~~louisxiv~demon~uk~co
Phil Masters phil~~philm~demon~uk~co
Raven Raven~~arpeggio~demon~uk~co
Rhodri James rhodri~~wildebst~demon~uk~co
Rob Harper stateofmind~~breathemail~ten
Roger Burton West roger~~firedrake~gro
Roger Vincent rogerv~~threex~uk~co
Sheila Thomas malwen~~granta~demon~uk~co
simon gray simon~~star-one~gro~uk
Steve Turnbull publisher~~visions-mag~moc
Steve Wright steve~~wrightnet~demon~uk~co
Thomas Lee tfl~~psp~uk~co
Tim Ellis tim~~timellis~demon~uk~co
Timothy Partridge timpart~~perdix~demon~uk~co
tobias erle vote-uk~~kholdan~snafu~de
Voting A B1 B2 SQ ROD C D
A. F. Simpson yes 3 1 2 4 yes yes
A.J.Clark yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Aaron Fuller 2 1 4 3 yes yes
Adam Benedict Canning no 4 3 1 2 no no
Adam Hattrell yes 2 1 3 4 yes no
Andy Leighton yes 2 1 4 3 yes no
Andy Mabbett abstain abstain abstain
Brendan Murphy yes 1 2 yes yes
Chris Haywood yes 1 2 3 4 yes no
Chris Raistrick yes 3 1 4 2 yes yes
D. Stevens yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
David Damerell yes 2 1 3 4 yes abstain
Eddie Cochrane yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Eugene yes 3 3 2 1 yes abstain
G T Kingston yes 3 1 2 4 yes yes
Giles Williams yes 1 yes yes
Guy Robinson no 1 no no
Henry Penninkilampi yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Ian Miller yes 4 1 3 2 yes yes
J M Kemp yes 4 1 2 3 yes yes
John Dallman yes 1 2 yes yes
John Scott yes 4 1 2 3 yes yes
Jonathan David Price yes 2 1 yes yes
Lucy Ketcher yes 2 1 3 3 yes yes
Marcus L. Rowland yes 3 1 2 4 yes abstain
Mark Tyndall yes 1 1 yes yes
Matthew Hambley yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Matthew Vernon yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Michael Lush no 4 4 1 4 yes no
Mr. Tines yes 3 1 2 4 yes yes
Nick Eden no 1 no no
Paul Leake yes 3 2 4 1 yes yes
Pete Lindsay no 4 3 1 2 no no
Phil Masters yes 4 1 2 3 yes yes
Raven yes 1 4 2 3 no no
Rhodri James yes 2 1 3 yes yes
Rob Harper yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Roger Burton West yes 4 1 2 3 yes yes
Roger Vincent yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Sheila Thomas yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
simon gray abstain abstain abstain
Steve Turnbull yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Steve Wright yes 2 1 3 4 yes yes
Thomas Lee abstain 1 1 1 1 no no
Tim Ellis yes 1 2 yes yes
Timothy Partridge yes 2 1 4 3 yes yes
tobias erle yes 4 3 1 2 no yes
Proposal "A" - Purpose of Group
YES = 38
NO = 5
ABSTAIN = 4
YES beat NO by a majority of 33 votes, this is more than the +12
majority required to beat the Status Quo. Accordingly, the proposal
PASSES.
A. F. Simpson yes
A.J.Clark yes
Adam Hattrell yes
Andy Leighton yes
Brendan Murphy yes
Chris Haywood yes
Chris Raistrick yes
D. Stevens yes
David Damerell yes
Eddie Cochrane yes
Eugene yes
G T Kingston yes
Giles Williams yes
Henry Penninkilampi yes
Ian Miller yes
J M Kemp yes
John Dallman yes
John Scott yes
Jonathan David Price yes
Lucy Ketcher yes
Marcus L. Rowland yes
Mark Tyndall yes
Matthew Hambley yes
Matthew Vernon yes
Mr. Tines yes
Paul Leake yes
Phil Masters yes
Raven yes
Rhodri James yes
Rob Harper yes
Roger Burton West yes
Roger Vincent yes
Sheila Thomas yes
Steve Turnbull yes
Steve Wright yes
Tim Ellis yes
Timothy Partridge yes
tobias erle yes
Adam Benedict Canning no
Guy Robinson no
Michael Lush no
Nick Eden no
Pete Lindsay no
Aaron Fuller abstain
Andy Mabbett abstain
simon gray abstain
Thomas Lee abstain
- ------------------------------
Proposal "B"
RAW PREFERENCES GRID
1 2 ROD SQ
1) Proposed by James Coupe: [n/a] [ 2] [ 26] [ 24]
2) Proposed by David Damerell et al: [ 38] [n/a] [ 36] [ 37]
Re-Open Discussion: [ 14] [ 6] [n/a] [ 10]
Status Quo: [ 18] [ 8] [ 31] [n/a]
In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast
that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option
appropriate to the number's column. For instance, 2 votes preferred
option one (proposed by James Coupe) to option two (proposed by David
Damerell et al) while 14 votes preferred reopening the discussion to
option one (proposed by James Coupe).
However, as only one of the options beat Status Quo by twelve or more
preferences, it is declared the Condorcet winner and no further count
is necessary.
Preferences B1 B2 SQ ROD
A. F. Simpson 3 1 2 4
A.J.Clark 2 1 3 4
Aaron Fuller 2 1 4 3
Adam Benedict Canning 4 3 1 2
Adam Hattrell 2 1 3 4
Andy Leighton 2 1 4 3
Andy Mabbett
Brendan Murphy 1 2
Chris Haywood 1 2 3 4
Chris Raistrick 3 1 4 2
D. Stevens 2 1 3 4
David Damerell 2 1 3 4
Eddie Cochrane 2 1 3 4
Eugene 3 3 2 1
G T Kingston 3 1 2 4
Giles Williams 1
Guy Robinson 1
Henry Penninkilampi 2 1 3 4
Ian Miller 4 1 3 2
J M Kemp 4 1 2 3
John Dallman 1 2
John Scott 4 1 2 3
Jonathan David Price 2 1
Lucy Ketcher 2 1 3 3
Marcus L. Rowland 3 1 2 4
Mark Tyndall 1 1
Matthew Hambley 2 1 3 4
Matthew Vernon 2 1 3 4
Michael Lush 4 4 1 4
Mr. Tines 3 1 2 4
Nick Eden 1
Paul Leake 3 2 4 1
Pete Lindsay 4 3 1 2
Phil Masters 4 1 2 3
Raven 1 4 2 3
Rhodri James 2 1 3
Rob Harper 2 1 3 4
Roger Burton West 4 1 2 3
Roger Vincent 2 1 3 4
Sheila Thomas 2 1 3 4
simon gray
Steve Turnbull 2 1 3 4
Steve Wright 2 1 3 4
Thomas Lee 1 1 1 1
Tim Ellis 1 2
Timothy Partridge 2 1 4 3
tobias erle 4 3 1 2
- ------------------------------
Proposal "C" - Advertising
YES = 38
NO = 7
ABSTAIN = 2
YES beat NO by a majority of 31 votes, this is more than the +12
majority required to beat the Status Quo. Accordingly, the proposal
PASSES.
A. F. Simpson yes
A.J.Clark yes
Aaron Fuller yes
Adam Hattrell yes
Andy Leighton yes
Brendan Murphy yes
Chris Haywood yes
Chris Raistrick yes
D. Stevens yes
David Damerell yes
Eddie Cochrane yes
Eugene yes
G T Kingston yes
Giles Williams yes
Henry Penninkilampi yes
Ian Miller yes
J M Kemp yes
John Dallman yes
John Scott yes
Jonathan David Price yes
Lucy Ketcher yes
Marcus L. Rowland yes
Mark Tyndall yes
Matthew Hambley yes
Matthew Vernon yes
Michael Lush yes
Mr. Tines yes
Paul Leake yes
Phil Masters yes
Rhodri James yes
Rob Harper yes
Roger Burton West yes
Roger Vincent yes
Sheila Thomas yes
Steve Turnbull yes
Steve Wright yes
Tim Ellis yes
Timothy Partridge yes
Adam Benedict Canning no
Guy Robinson no
Nick Eden no
Pete Lindsay no
Raven no
Thomas Lee no
tobias erle no
Andy Mabbett abstain
simon gray abstain
- ------------------------------
Proposal "D" - Binaries
YES = 32
NO = 10
ABSTAIN = 5
YES beat NO by a majority of 22 votes, this is more than the +12
majority required to beat the Status Quo. Accordingly, the proposal
PASSES.
A. F. Simpson yes
A.J.Clark yes
Aaron Fuller yes
Brendan Murphy yes
Chris Raistrick yes
D. Stevens yes
Eddie Cochrane yes
G T Kingston yes
Giles Williams yes
Henry Penninkilampi yes
Ian Miller yes
J M Kemp yes
John Dallman yes
John Scott yes
Jonathan David Price yes
Lucy Ketcher yes
Mark Tyndall yes
Matthew Hambley yes
Matthew Vernon yes
Mr. Tines yes
Paul Leake yes
Phil Masters yes
Rhodri James yes
Rob Harper yes
Roger Burton West yes
Roger Vincent yes
Sheila Thomas yes
Steve Turnbull yes
Steve Wright yes
Tim Ellis yes
Timothy Partridge yes
tobias erle yes
Adam Benedict Canning no
Adam Hattrell no
Andy Leighton no
Chris Haywood no
Guy Robinson no
Michael Lush no
Nick Eden no
Pete Lindsay no
Raven no
Thomas Lee no
Andy Mabbett abstain
David Damerell abstain
Eugene abstain
Marcus L. Rowland abstain
simon gray abstain
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Votetakers Comments:
This was the first vote I have counted using the Condorcet system,
having failed to notice the multiple choice options on the second part
of the proposals! It took me some time to sort through the result and
even then needed help from other votetakers, particularly Barry Salter.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on
behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties.
The rules under which votes for the uk.* hierarchy are taken are posted
regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL:
<ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting>
The UKVoting web pages can be found at <http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/>
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to
uk.net.news.announce.
Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control@usenet.org.uk.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
RATIONALE:
The creation of uk.adverts.games.roleplay means that
uk.games.roleplay now has somewhere where advertising is not
"frowned upon". As expressed during the RFD for that group, the
charter of this group is being updated to reflect that creation,
moving those topics which are on-topic for that group away from
this group, for the most part, but also clarifying what is still
perfectly fine in this group.
However, during the discussion of the 2nd RFD, it came to light
that other areas of the charter were also "at fault" in that
they did not accurately convey the basics of the group. As
a result of this, these areas are also being addressed.
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SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION:
There has been almost no discussion of the 4th RFD. When the proponent
changed an effort was made to modify the 3rd RFD until it was more
acceptable; this resulted in splitting the charter change into its
four independent pieces to be voted on separately, as well as the
insertion of a second option (written by about half a dozen people)
for one section; both the existing text and the proposed new text were
felt to be rather lacking.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
PROPOSALS:
Proposal 1 - Purpose of Group
Replace the existing first paragraph:
The proposed new newsgroup will be used for UK (and visitors) Role
Playing addicts to meet and arrange games thoughout the UK. Also it
can be used for (but not limited to) the discussions of new and old
games, rules, large game meetings (i.e. GenCon).
with the following:
The newsgroup is for UK (and visiting) roleplaying enthusiasts
to meet and arrange games thoughout the UK. Also it can be used
for (but is not limited to) the discussions of new and old
games, rules, large game meetings (e.g. GenCon).
Proposal 2
Replace the existing second paragraph:
It will be used for all types of role-playing, including (but not
limited to) Live Action (i.e. Amber, V:TM), Play By Mail, Dice (ie.
AD&D, Shadowrun).
with one of the following:
Option 1 - Proposed by James Coupe:
It is used for all types of roleplaying, including (but not
limited to) live action roleplaying (LARPs/LRPs e.g. Mind's Eye
Theatre, Treasure Trap, The Gathering), play by mail and table-
top games, both using dice based systems (e.g. AD&D, Shadowrun,
Vampire: The Masquerade) and those using alternative systems
(e.g. Amber, Dragonlance: 5th Age).
Option 2 - Proposed by David Damerell et al
The group is for discussion of all types of roleplaying games
(RPGs); games where the players assume the roles of imaginary
characters in a fictional world, described and controlled by
another player who is often known as the gamemaster. RPGs
include tabletop games such as Dungeons & Dragons, play-by-
mail/email and live-action/freeform games. These games use a
variety of rules (which commonly employ dice to add an element
of unpredictability) to help the gamemaster decide the result
of actions in the game.
The group does not cover 'roleplaying' in other contexts, such
as psychiatric, business training or sexual settings, or the
genre of computer games known as RPGs. (The use of computers to
assist the play of roleplaying games is on-topic.)
Proposal 3 - Advertising
Replace the existing section on advertising:
Advertising
Lengthy and/or off-topic posts will not be welcome. Short
announcements of relevant products, services and events, inviting
e-mail inquires or suggesting URL's for further information, will be
allowed.
with the following:
* Advertising:
Short one-off announcements of relevant products, services and
events, inviting e-mail enquiries or suggesting URLs for
further information, will be allowed. Lengthy and/or off-topic
posts will not be welcome. Advertisements for clubs and social
events may be repeated at fortnightly or longer intervals.
No other advertising, especially offers of goods for sale,
should be posted to this newsgroup; newsgroups such as
uk.adverts.games.roleplay or rec.games.frp.marketplace could be
used instead. Messages posted to those groups must not be cross-
posted to uk.games.roleplay.
It should be noted that this specifically does not prohibit
people looking for groups to join, or groups looking for new
players to join them, from posting to the group to find players.
Proposal 4 - Binaries
Replace the existing section on Binaries:
Binaries
Binaries should not be allowed in this newsgroup. Instead URL's
pointing to binaries should be given.
with the following:
* Binaries:
Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.), are
*forbidden*, except for cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP)
Binaries belong on a web or ftp site (or similar storage
systems), whose URL may be posted.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
NEW CHARTER:
The newsgroup is for UK (and visiting) roleplaying enthusiasts
to meet and arrange games thoughout the UK. Also it can be used
for (but is not limited to) the discussions of new and old
games, rules, large game meetings (e.g. GenCon).
The group is for discussion of all types of roleplaying games
(RPGs); games where the players assume the roles of imaginary
characters in a fictional world, described and controlled by
another player who is often known as the gamemaster. RPGs
include tabletop games such as Dungeons & Dragons, play-by-
mail/email and live-action/freeform games. These games use a
variety of rules (which commonly employ dice to add an element
of unpredictability) to help the gamemaster decide the result
of actions in the game.
The group does not cover 'roleplaying' in other contexts, such
as psychiatric, business training or sexual settings, or the
genre of computer games known as RPGs. (The use of computers to
assist the play of roleplaying games is on-topic.)
* Advertising:
Short one-off announcements of relevant products, services and
events, inviting e-mail enquiries or suggesting URLs for
further information, will be allowed. Lengthy and/or off-topic
posts will not be welcome. Advertisements for clubs and social
events may be repeated at fortnightly or longer intervals.
No other advertising, especially offers of goods for sale,
should be posted to this newsgroup; newsgroups such as
uk.adverts.games.roleplay or rec.games.frp.marketplace could be
used instead. Messages posted to those groups must not be cross-
posted to uk.games.roleplay.
It should be noted that this specifically does not prohibit
people looking for groups to join, or groups looking for new
players to join them, from posting to the group to find players.
* Binaries:
Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.), are
*forbidden*, except for cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP)
Binaries belong on a web or ftp site (or similar storage
systems), whose URL may be posted.
END CHARTER.
Newsgroups line
uk.games.roleplay A UK specific newsgroup for all aspects of roleplaying
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