30 Apr 2003: Amend Committee Document (Permanent Members, MONC restrictions)
From: "Barry Salter" <b.salter@ukvoting.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:34:20 +0100
Subject: RESULT: Amend Committee Document (Permanent Members, MONC restrictions)
Both proposals FAIL
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.net.news.management
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RESULT: Amend the guidelines for group creation (Committee Document)
SUMMARY:
Proposal 1 : Committee Membership
STAGE ONE - Options compared to Status Quo
Status Quo preferred to Option A by 49 votes to 18
Status Quo preferred to Option B by 34 votes to 29
Status Quo preferred to Re-Open Discussion by 40 votes to 23
No option beats Status Quo by 12 or more votes. Accordingly, it
prevails and Stage Two is not necessary.
Proposal 2 : MoNC Time Restrictions
YES = 14
NO = 45
ABSTAIN = 8
NO beat YES by a majority of 31 votes. Accordingly, the proposal FAILS.
======================================================================
Voting closed at 23:59:59 BST, 16th April 2003
Proponent: David Mahon <dmahonRFD@amigo.co.uk>
Primary Votetaker: Barry Salter <b.salter@ukvoting.org.uk>
Secondary Votetaker: Jon Ribbens <j.ribbens@ukvoting.org.uk>
======================================================================
Distribution:
uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.net.news.management
======================================================================
The full results follow below in the following order:
1) Information on the ballot
2) Results and Individual Vote Details
3) Votetaker's Comments
4) Voting and Appeal Guidelines
5) Rationale and Proposed Changes
======================================================================
1) INFORMATION ON THE BALLOT
The CFV closed at 23:59:59 BST on 16th April 2003. The vote
was conducted under the Guidelines For Group Creation.
73 messages were received during the period of the vote, consisting of:
67 valid and counted votes
3 votes subsequently superseded by the voters
2 invalid votes
1 e-mail sent to the voting address
======================================================================
2) RESULTS AND INDIVIDUAL VOTE DETAILS
To make formatting simpler, and also to reduce the overall length of
this post, the results for the two Proposals are given separately, with
Proposal 2 being listed first (with names and e-mail addresses of all
voters), then Proposal 1, and invalid votes listed at the end.
Proposal 2 : MoNC Time Restrictions
Voted Yes - 14 votes
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
{R}'~!~semolina.rgo ({R})
adw~!~saska.demon.oc.yookay (Tony Wright)
barryd~!~idunno.rgo (Barry Dorrans)
dickg~!~dickalba.demon.oc.yookay (Dick Gaughan)
dmahon_vote_xcom03a~!~amigo.oc.yookay (David Mahon)
edd.the.duck~!~blueyonder.oc.yookay (Eddie Bernard)
J.F.Wheeler~!~rl.ca.yookay (Jonathan Wheeler)
jezza~!~hotwells.freeserve.oc.yookay (Jezza)
jimrtex~!~pipeline.ocm (Jim Riley)
jpb8~!~duke.edu (JBM)
kqrq~!~freeuk.ocm (kqr)
paul~!~harper.etn (Paul Harper)
sarah~!~gubbins.etn (xSaBx)
votes~!~alex-holden.oc.yookay (Alex Holden)
Voted No - 45 votes
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"@ @"~!~dontspame.ocm (Pedt)
{$usenet$}~!~mrtickle.demon.oc.yookay (Mike Henry)
af~!~etrigan.rgo (Alan Fleming)
alan~!~whirlnet.oc.yookay (Alan Ford)
andrew~!~erlenstar.demon.oc.yookay (Andrew Gierth)
bigfoot~!~davros.rgo (Anthony Gold)
billn~!~musketts.rgo.yookay (Bill Muskett)
brett.dunbar~!~dimetrodon.demon.oc.yookay (Brett Paul Dunbar)
Brian~!~bjforster.force9.oc.yookay (Brian)
chl~!~clw.cs.man.ca.yookay (Charles Lindsey)
chris~!~keristor.rgo (Chris Croughton)
comm_vote~!~clive.rgo.yookay (Clive R Robertson)
dave~!~research-group.oc.yookay (Dave Mayall)
don-aitken~!~freeuk.ocm (Don Aitken)
fredb~!~frolix8.demon.oc.yookay (Fred Barber)
graham.drabble~!~lineone.etn (Graham Drabble)
jim~!~us-lot.rgo (Lt. Cmdr. Jim)
jlurker~!~bigfoot.ocm (Justa Lurker)
jrk~!~sys.uea.ca.yookay (Richard Kennaway)
kevin~!~andreoli.oc.yookay (Kevin Andreoli)
mike~!~tauzero.oc.yookay (Mike Fleming)
mike~!~urgle.ocm (Mike Bristow)
mysteron~!~zetnet.oc.yookay (mysteron)
nigel~!~nigelashton.demon.oc.yookay (Nigel Ashton)
nja~!~leicester.ca.yookay (Andrew Norman)
owen.rees~!~tesco.etn (Owen Rees)
p.smyth~!~ucl.ca.yookay (Peter Smyth)
paul~!~giverin.oc.yookay (Paul Giverin)
paul~!~pcserv.demon.oc.yookay (Paul Carpenter)
pete_the_gardener~!~hotmail.ocm (Pete the Gardener)
peter~!~wpp.ltd.yookay (Peter Parry)
philip~!~blencathra.rgo.yookay (Philip Powell)
pmrobinson~!~gmx.etn (Peter Robinson)
pmunnsub~!~pearce-neptune.demon.oc.yookay (Peter Munn)
ppp~!~pirinen.demon.oc.yookay (Pekka P. Pirinen)
richard~!~highwayman.ocm (Richard Clayton)
rosenstiel~!~cix.oc.yookay (Colin Rosenstiel)
rpjs~!~kalevala.rgo.yookay (Roy Stilling)
squireb~!~bryhod99.demon.oc.yookay (squire)
tfl~!~psp.oc.yookay (Thomas Lee)
tim~!~sharrock.rgo.yookay (Tim Sharrock)
urcs~!~sandbenders.demon.oc.yookay (Steph Peters)
vote~!~malloc.oc.yookay (Steve Firth)
vote+ctte+2003-04~!~adam-barratt.rgo.yookay (Adam D. Barratt)
xcom03a~!~davros.rgo (Clive Feather)
Abstained - 8 votes
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
gizbon~!~higs.oc.yookay (gizbon)
jon~!~jonatkins.ocm (Jon Atkins)
katnews~!~ntlworld.ocm (kat)
macblads~!~ntlworld.ocm (Peter)
mawdl~!~csv.warwick.ca.yookay (Jon Thomson)
mrt102~!~york.ca.yookay (Mark Tyndall)
mtullett~!~ntlworld.ocm (Mike Tullett)
xcom03a~!~sarnie.rgo.yookay (Dave Mason)
- ------------------------------
Proposal 1 : Committee Membership
RAW PREFERENCES GRID
A B ROD SQ
Option A [n/a] [ 14] [ 17] [ 18]
Option B [ 48] [n/a] [ 32] [ 29]
Re-Open Discussion [ 45] [ 27] [n/a] [ 23]
Status Quo [ 49] [ 34] [ 40] [n/a]
In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were
cast that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option
appropriate to the number's column. For instance, 14 votes preferred
Option A to Option B while 45 votes preferred Option C to Option A.
PARTICULARS OF THE VOTE
Status Quo ---------\
Re-Open Discussion -------\ |
Option B -----\ | |
Option A ---\ | | |
Voter Name | | | | Preference
{R} 1 2 3 4 A > B > C > D
Adam D. Barratt 4 2 3 1 D > B > C > A
Alan Fleming 1 A A A A > B = C = D
Alan Ford 4 2 3 1 D > B > C > A
Alex Holden 1 3 2 A A > C > B > D
Andrew Gierth 4 1 3 2 B > D > C > A
Andrew Norman 1 A A A A > B = C = D
Anthony Gold 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Barry Dorrans 2 A 1 A C > A > B = D
Bill Muskett 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Brett Paul Dunbar 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Brian 4 4 2 1 D > C > A = B
Charles Lindsey 4 1 2 3 B > C > D > A
Chris Croughton A 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Clive Feather 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Clive R Robertson 4 2 3 1 D > B > C > A
Colin Rosenstiel A 2 3 1 D > B > C > A
Dave Mason 1 3 2 4 A > C > B > D
Dave Mayall 4 1 2 3 B > C > D > A
David Mahon 1 2 3 4 A > B > C > D
Dick Gaughan 3 1 2 4 B > C > A > D
Don Aitken 4 1 3 2 B > D > C > A
Eddie Bernard 1 2 3 4 A > B > C > D
Fred Barber 4 3 1 2 C > D > B > A
gizbon 4 1 2 3 B > C > D > A
Graham Drabble 4 3 1 2 C > D > B > A
JBM 4 1 3 2 B > D > C > A
Jezza 2 1 4 3 B > A > D > C
Jim Riley 1 4 3 2 A > D > C > B
Jon Atkins 1 2 3 3 A > B > C = D
Jon Thomson 1 4 2 3 A > C > D > B
Jonathan Wheeler 2 1 3 A B > A > C > D
Justa Lurker 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
kat 3 1 3 2 B > D > A = C
Kevin Andreoli 3 2 4 1 D > B > A > C
kqr 1 4 4 4 A > B = C = D
Lt. Cmdr. Jim 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Mark Tyndall 4 1 2 3 B > C > D > A
Mike Bristow 4 1 2 3 B > C > D > A
Mike Fleming 4 1 3 2 B > D > C > A
Mike Henry 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Mike Tullett 1 2 3 4 A > B > C > D
mysteron A A A 1 D > A = B = C
Nigel Ashton 3 1 4 2 B > D > A > C
Owen Rees 4 1 3 2 B > D > C > A
Paul Carpenter 4 1 3 2 B > D > C > A
Paul Giverin 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Paul Harper 1 2 3 4 A > B > C > D
Pedt 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Pekka P. Pirinen 4 2 3 1 D > B > C > A
Pete The Gardener 4 3 1 2 C > D > B > A
Peter A A A 1 D > A = B = C
Peter Munn 3 1 2 4 B > C > A > D
Peter Parry 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Peter Robinson 4 1 1 2 B = C > D > A
Peter Smyth 4 1 3 2 B > D > C > A
Philip Powell 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Richard Clayton 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Richard Kennaway 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Roy Stilling A A A 1 D > A = B = C
squire 4 4 4 1 D > A = B = C
Steph Peters 4 2 3 1 D > B > C > A
Steve Firth 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Thomas Lee 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
Tim Sharrock 4 1 2 3 B > C > D > A
Tony Wright 4 2 1 3 C > B > D > A
xSaBx 4 3 2 1 D > C > B > A
INVALID VOTES
mouarfNOSPAM~!~cacaboudin.rgo (Modeste Grosnez) - ACK bounced
ann~!~baglady.rgo.yookay (Ann Wood) - See votetaker's comments
======================================================================
3) VOTETAKER'S COMMENTS
Results Delay
Firstly I'd like to apologise for the delay in producing the results,
and also in getting acknowledgements out. This is primarily due to work
being busier than usual over the weeks leading up to Easter, but also
in part to my mail server deciding to "sit" on mail for a time.
Ann Wood
It has already been proven that www.baglady.org.uk is hosted by Dave
Mason at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dave.mason/ and Frames Forwarded
by "clicknamesforwarder". Once again, Dave Mason's own vote has been
counted and, once again, enquiries seeking clarification of "Ann's"
involvement in newsgroups was met with an unhelpful response. That,
coupled with further technical data determined from the e-mail exchange,
leads the votetake to believe that "Ann" did not cast this vote.
The infamous "From:" line question
Most voters provided an answer to the question about the From: line,
although this only turned out to be needed for a minority who aren't
regular voters.
======================================================================
4) VOTING AND APPEAL GUIDELINES
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on
behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties.
The rules under which votes for the uk.* hierarchy are taken are
posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the
following URL:
<ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting>
The UKVoting web pages can be found at <http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/>
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted
to uk.net.news.announce.
Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control@usenet.org.uk
======================================================================
5) RATIONALE AND PROPOSED CHANGES
6.1 RATIONALE
This fifth RFD has been put forward after considerable debate following
the first four RFDs.
Part 1:
Despite discussion from the first four RFDs and the fact that this
subject has been brought up on several occasions in the past, I remain
completely oblivious to the advantages of keeping these unelected and
unaccountable people on the committee (if they actually bother to take
part in it).
UK Usenet has come a very long way since the present arrangement for
creating groups came into being. As well as elected members, the
committee includes "permanent members" - these initially represented the
four largest ISPs and certainly those with the largest influence in the
United Kingdom at that time. The UK's internet infrastructure has
evolved and there is no longer a dependence on the four named "Major
Service Providers." in the UK Usenet Committee document.
At the commencement of these RFDs, one of the named providers can't even
be bothered to have a representative on the Committee. Another one has a
representative who is believed no longer to work for the provider. One
of the others posts to unnm regularly. I have emailed them directly and
the only one of them has replied to either that email or to the
discussion here.
My personal view is that the democratically elected members of the UK
Usenet Committee should be more than capable of handling matters and the
permanent positions add nothing that they could not add as simply users
of UNNM commenting in the newsgroup. The permanent class of Committee
membership should therefore be removed.
An alternative, which also seems to have some support, is to have a
means of selecting "permanent members" on a regular basis. If this
second view is successful I think it would be worth changing the name of
"permanent members" for obvious reasons.
As the status quo really is not worth keeping, but I understand that
people out there are daft or bigoted enough not to vote for ether of my
proposals not because they believe they are worse than what we currently
have, but because they do not want to be seen to vote for a proposal
that I have put forward, I have added the option of Re-open Discussion
with another proponent (Charles Lindsey).
Part 2:
It is presently impossible to entertain a motion of no confidence in the
committee from the call for nominations until one month after the new
members have been installed. This period may run for half a calendar
year or more. It would take at least another month to then go through a
motion of no confidence.
I believe that the committee should have the support of the electorate
all year round and if it loses that support, the electorate should not
have to put up with that committee for over half a year.
END RATIONALE
=====================================================================
6.2 PROPOSED CHANGES
Part 1:
In the document "The UK Usenet Committee", amend the section entitled
"Membership" to read the following:
(Option A)
MEMBERSHIP
There shall be nine elected members of the UK Usenet Committee. Each
elected member shall serve for a term of three years. Any person who is
a reader of uk.* articles may stand for elected membership of the
Committee.
At each annual Committee Election, all members who have served a full
three year term shall retire from the Committee. If at this point there
are fewer than three vacant seats then the longest serving member(s)
will retire (ties to be broken by lot) as needed to create three vacant
seats. Retiring members shall be eligible for re-election.
[In addition, to be removed after the next committee election]
In the interim period between the addition of this section to this
document and the next Annual Committee Election the committee may be
made up of more than nine members. From the 1st January in the year
following the next election, the permanent members of the Committee
shall relinquish their permanent positions. As retiring members, they
may, of course, stand for election at the previous Annual Committee
Election.
[Remove existing redundant paragraph relating to interim treatment of
former newsadmin members.]
(Option B)
There shall be two classes of member of the Committee.
1. Elected Members
There shall be nine elected members each serving for a term of three
years. Any person who is a reader of uk.* articles may stand for elected
membership of the Committee.
At each annual Committee Election, all elected members who have served a
full three year term shall retire from the Committee. If at this point
there are fewer than three vacant seats then the longest serving elected
member(s) will retire (ties to be broken by lot) as needed to create
three vacant seats. Retiring members shall be eligible for re-election.
[Remove existing redundant paragraph relating to interim treatment of
former newsadmin members.]
2. Service Provider Members
Usenet in general, and the uk.* part of it in particular, is dependent
for its operation upon those providers which propagate it and deliver it
to its end users.
The Committee should include, as Service Provider Members, the nominated
representatives of 4 such providers, who shall hold office for a period
of 3 years. Whenever a vacancy exists (through retirement, resignation,
unavailability or for any other reason) the elected members of the
Committee should invite a provider that is well respected within the UK
Usenet community and plays a significant role in the propagation and
distribution of Usenet, to nominate such a member.
[Replace other occurrences of "open member(s)" by "elected member(s)".]
(Option C)
Re-open discussion with Charles Lindsey as proponent
(Option D)
Status Quo
Part 2:
In the document "The UK Usenet Committee", amend the section entitled
"Motions of No Confidence":
Replace the section:
"A motion of no confidence may not be proposed once the annual call for
committee nominations has been issued until one month after the
newly-elected members are fully installed, nor may it be proposed within
three months of the announcement of the result of any previous such
motion."
with
"A motion of no confidence may not be proposed within 90 days of the
announcement of the result of any previous motion of no confidence."
END PROPOSALS
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