Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Graham Drabble Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.radio.amateur Subject: RESULT - Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated PASSES 53:22 Followup-To: uk.net.news.config Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 11:31:22 +0000 Lines: 307 Sender: Matthew Vernon as Control Approved: Matthew Vernon as Control Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: chiark.greenend.org.uk X-Trace: chiark.greenend.org.uk 1449747168 25029 212.13.197.229 (10 Dec 2015 11:32:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@chiark.greenend.org.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 11:32:48 +0000 (UTC) Originator: @endpoint.empire.pick.ucam.org ([172.16.22.12]) Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org uk.net.news.announce:734 uk.net.news.config:34635 uk.radio.amateur:253437 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES Summary: Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated PASSES 53:22 YES beat NO by a majority of 31 votes. For the proposal to succeed, there must be 12 more YES votes than NO votes. Accordingly, the proposal PASSES. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, 17th December 2014. Proponent : "Paul W. Schleck, K3FU" Votetaker: Graham Drabble - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Distribution: These results have been posted to the following newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce uk.net.news.config uk.radio.amateur - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Results: The results follow below in the following order: 1) Summary of Mail Received During the Voting Period 2) Results 3) Individual Vote Details 4) Votetakers Comments 5) Voting and Appeal Guidelines 6) Rationale 7) Newsgroups Line 8) Proposal - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUMMARY OF MAIL RECEIVED DURING THE VOTING PERIOD 96 messages were received to the Ballot Request Address, of which: 93 were valid Ballot Requests 2 were a request from an invalid address 1 was a test message sent by the votetaker 83 messages were received to the Voting Address, of which: 76 were valid and counted votes 3 were test messages sent by the votetaker 2 were deemed invalid due not specifying a voting preference (1 revoted) 2 were repeat votes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RESULTS: Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated YES : 53 votes NO : 22 votes ABSTAIN : 1 vote Total : 76 votes YES beat NO by a majority of 31 votes. For the proposal to succeed, there must be 12 more YES votes than NO votes. Accordingly, the proposal PASSES. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INDIVIDUAL VOTE DETAILS Voted YES (53) ============== A.Lee alan -at- darkroom,plus,com Adam Funk a24061a -at- ducksburg,com Alan Braggins armb -at- chiark,greenend,org,uk Andrew Marshall g8bur -at- g8bur,demon,co,uk Andy Burns usenet,feb2014 -at- adslpipe,co,uk Anthony R. Gold not-for-mail -at- ahjg,co,uk Anthony Smith cityamateurradio -at- gmail,com Bob Evans ukramv -at- deleteifspam,lichtech,co,uk Brian D groups -at- planet3,freeuk,co,uk Brian Howie brian -at- b-howie,demon,co,uk Brian Reay g8osn -at- yahoo,co,uk Charlotte Hanson chirpycharlie -at- msn,com Chris Doe ct62354 -at- gmail,com Chronos matt -at- chronos,org,uk Clive George clive -at- evil-c,co,uk David mm0xdb -at- gmail,com David Damerell damerell -at- chiark,greenend,org,uk David Smith dss -at- lords,com Graham Nye news -at- thenyes,org,uk Ian Chard ian -at- chard,org Ian Clifton ian,clifton -at- chem,ox,ac,uk Ian Jackson ijackson -at- chiark,greenend,org,uk Ian Jackson (G3OHX) ianREMOVETHISjackson -at- g3ohx,demon,co,uk Irv Finkleman finkirv -at- shaw,ca Jerry Stuckle jstuckle -at- attglobal,net John john,whittingtonpain -at- gmail,com Jonathan Amery jdamery+uram2+vote -at- ysolde,ucam,org Joshua Wallace j,s,wallace504 -at- googlemail,com Kirsten Watson kjwatson -at- chiark,greenend,org,uk MICHAEL COLE mr,m,t,cole -at- gmail,com Marc Wilson marc -at- cleopatra,co,uk Martin Connolly martin,connolly -at- kcl,ac,uk Matthew Vernon matthew -at- debian,org Mike Tomlinson mike -at- jasper,org,uk Paul W. Schleck pschleck -at- novia,net Peter Parry peter -at- wpp,ltd,uk Phil Lee phil -at- lee-family,me,uk Richard Bird richardbird1953 -at- gmail,com Richard Kettlewell rjk -at- greenend,org,uk Roger Bell_West roger+urcm201511 -at- firedrake,org Roger Hayter roger -at- hayter,org Rusty Hinge tony,anson -at- girolle,co,uk Stephen Thomas Cole usenet -at- stephenthomascole,com The Nomad M0HGU -at- dctower,co,uk Thomas Lee tfl -at- psp,co,uk Tony tony -at- darkstorm,co,uk Tony Finch dot -at- dotat,at Trevor Parker ptrevor49 -at- yahoo,com Victor Meldrew vicmeld -at- gmail,com Wm tcnw81 -at- tarrcity,demon,co,uk crn crn -at- netunix,com g8dgc aka Sn!pe snipe -at- notforspam,fsnet,co,uk mm0fmf mm0fmf -at- hotmail,com Voted NO (22) ============= A. non Eyemouse anoneyemouse -at- eml,cc Barry Salter votes2015 -at- southie,me,uk Brian Brian -at- bjforster,force9,co,uk Clive D.W. Feather clive -at- davros,org Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI g3vki -at- turner-smith,co,uk Iain Young G7III g7iii -at- g7iii,net JT jtsspamtrapaddress -at- gmail,com John the R-T john-the-r-t -at- gmx,co,uk Llymru llymru -at- gmail,com Mike Fleming mike -at- tauzero,co,uk Molly Mockford uram2 -at- mollymockford,me,uk Nick nick,spam -at- Yahoo,co,uk Paul Cummins paulcummins -at- tiscali,co,uk Pedt laughs -at- manygiggl,es Sara Merriman sarakirk -at- blueyonder,co,uk Scion swmine123 -at- gmail,com Spike Aero,Spike -at- mail,com Steve g8izy -at- blueyonder,co,uk gi8lbp gi8lbp -at- gi4gov,plus,com mw3qro mw3qro -at- gmail,com paul {voter} -at- watman,clara,co,uk roger merriman roger -at- sarlet,com Voted ABSTAIN (1) ================= Brian Morrison bdm -at- fenrir,org,uk - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Votetakers Comments: One of the busiest group creation votes for quite some time. Early voting was busy but fairly straightforward. A couple of queries to me from people struggling to get a ballot, one needed to whitelist the ballot request address in their anti-spam, the other was sending the ballot request to the wrong address. Two people submitted ballots without any preference expressed in the voting box. Both had their votes returned with an explanation that these would not count as a valid vote. One subsequently revoted, no reply or revote was seen from the other. Unfortunately there have been many posts advertising this vote almost none of which have been truly neutral in tone and in some cases explicitly encouraging votes in a particular direction. The first of these that I am aware of was posted to uk.rec.sheds at 22:52 on 22nd November and a further bunch posted to uk.people.silversurfers, uk.politics.misc, uk.rec.cycling, uk.rec.gardening, uk.rec.motorcycles and uk.telecom.broadband on 26th November. It is my firm belief (and the supporting evidence for this has been provided to UKV and the Committee) that many of the second bunch were not actually attempts to solicit votes but a deliberate attempt to sabotage the vote. In these circumstances it would seem counter-productive to automatically annul the vote and so I have attempted to produce a result in spite of this. It is worth noting at this point that had voting finished immediately prior to the first post above the percentage in favour would have differed by less than 4% from the final margin and the result would not have changed. The fact that the result did not change as a result of the postings, there were postings both for and against the proposal (if taken at face value) and that the overall percentage in favour did not change significantly leads me to believe that, even if the exact numbers have been influenced by the posts, these are a fair and valid reflection of the views of the electorate. It is also worth noting at this point that the moves over the past few years to improve privacy by both the major NSPs and the major email providers make voter validation much harder. uk.* voting has always relied on the goodwill of the users to put a fair vote before any self interest. Their are plenty of opportunities during the RFD process to bring proposals to the attention of other groups and to either encourage the proponent to include those groups in subsequent RFDs or to encourage readers to watch uk.net.news.announce for the official CFV. Both of these are entirely legitimate. However once the CFV has started all users have the duty to help ensure a fair vote, any advertising must therefore be strictly neutral and should point people at the uk.net.news.* discussion / CFV rather than directly at the ballot request address. Finally I'd like to thank all those who bought the above posts to my attention. In particular a special mention should go to the proponent who, despite being aware that there existance could lead to the cancellation of the vote, did email UKV with the details of those he was aware of. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting. UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs on behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties. The rules under which this vote is taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: The UKVoting web pages can be found at There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control (at) usenet (dot) org (dot) uk. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RATIONALE uk.radio.amateur.moderated is a moderated alternative to the existing uk.radio.amateur newsgroup. Over the past several years, the traffic on uk.radio.amateur has become largely flame wars, spam, and personal ad-hominem discussions of past, present, and future violations and violators, having little or no bearing on amateur radio. Polite requests by serious group posters to the offenders to refrain from such behaviour have not resulted in elimination of such behaviour and has in fact resulted in another series of flame wars. As a result, many knowledgeable and concerned posters in uk.radio.amateur have ceased being active therein. It is expected that offering a moderated group will persuade those who formerly participated to resume their participation in rational, focused, and informed discussion. Proper moderation will enable serious postings to the group to remain on topic while not limiting who can voice opinions or what opinions can be voiced. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NEWSGROUPS LINE uk.radio.amateur.moderated Amateur radio and related matters (Moderated) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ CHARTER uk.radio.amateur.moderated uk.radio.amateur.moderated is for the discussion of amateur ("ham") radio, also known as the Amateur Radio Service, in the United Kingdom. Possible topics include past, present, and future operating practices; events; contests; past, present, and potential-future rules; power limitations; authorised frequencies; allowed modes and band plans (or other gentlemen's agreements) that govern how we are to operate; what constitutes the acceptable operation of amateur stations. This newsgroup is only intended to supplement, not supercede, any other amateur radio newsgroups. General communications law or government policy of various government agencies is also on-topic, as long as the discussion relates to amateur radio. Examples would be emergency communications, local antenna restrictions, and property deed restrictions applying to operation of amateur radio stations. Discussion of other types of radio, such as Citizens Band, Broadcast, other Personal Radio Services, Commercial or Private Land Mobile, and Marine or Aviation services are off-topic, except when *directly* related to amateur radio. Similarly, discussion of methods violating applicable communications law and regulations concerning radio equipment or operations are off-topic. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 1.4.12 Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBVmliimOfGXkh8vHZAQIUugP/U/MLgwcAjJ3L2KCjRapJmPZKzq06DB98 QizhGxK+BL41t1xQMQEsiPDDQvpclVE6rAAx4Rw4FqiWTqSWp58qgfg6wfNrjVAd FHNTPLGffs98kTLwuNnv/TfopCgr+U3A0GPcCBITCb+8e8mA4tafg39LFZ4TBmu1 dUWc+orMTVY= =gkcS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----