Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!matrix.darkstorm.co.uk!.POSTED!matrix.darkstorm.co.uk!not-for-mail From: Graham Drabble Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.radio.amateur Subject: RESULT - Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated FAILS 31:27 Followup-To: uk.net.news.config Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 20:46:49 +0000 Organization: just another hole in the fabric of the internet Lines: 304 Sender: Tony Evans as Control Approved: Tony Evans as Control Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 5uHAjGAa5BqDCwyu0K7LyDhVkSSpK2OOU1YR1VQ5W18= X-Trace: matrix.darkstorm.co.uk T3olWyW7JXp3Ar8RKkUN0XkETJpGYLBIQQtoiFuEl+4== X-Complaints-To: abuse@matrix.darkstorm.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 20:48:05 +0000 (UTC) X-User-ID: /Oc+9qdP6JZGyjylqG+Ij1qtwM+0u5Hcl6DIoCuUYEo= Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org uk.net.news.announce:636 uk.net.news.config:30116 uk.radio.amateur:222735 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES Summary: Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated FAILS 31:27 YES beat NO by a majority of 4 votes. For the proposal to succeed, there must be 12 more YES votes than NO votes. Accordingly, the proposal FAILS. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, 17th December 2014. Proponent : "Paul W. Schleck, K3FU" Votetaker: Graham Drabble - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Distribution: These results have been posted to the following newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce uk.net.news.config uk.radio.amateur - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Results: The results follow below in the following order: 1) Summary of Mail Received During the Voting Period 2) Results 3) Individual Vote Details 4) Votetakers Comments 5) Voting and Appeal Guidelines 6) Rationale 7) Newsgroups Line 8) Proposal - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUMMARY OF MAIL RECEIVED DURING THE VOTING PERIOD 72 messages were received to the Ballot Request Address, of which: 71 were valid Ballot Requests 1 was a test message sent by the votetaker 66 messages were received to the Voting Address, of which: 60 were valid and counted votes 1 was deemed invalid due not specifying a voting preference 5 were repeat votes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RESULTS: Create moderated newsgroup uk.radio.amateur.moderated YES : 31 votes NO : 27 votes ABSTAIN : 2 vote Total : 60 votes YES beat NO by a majority of 4 votes. For the proposal to succeed, there must be 12 more YES votes than NO votes. Accordingly, the proposal FAILS - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INDIVIDUAL VOTE DETAILS Voted YES (30) ============== Anthony Gold not-for-mail -at- ahjg,co,uk Bob Evans ukramv -at- deleteifspam,lichtech,co,uk Bob Smits bob -at- rsmits,ca Brian Howie brian -at- b-howie,demon,co,uk Brian Reay g8osn -at- yahoo,co,uk David Damerell damerell -at- chiark,greenend,org,uk G4UGM dave,g4ugm -at- gmail,com Graham Nye nospam -at- thenyes,org,uk Huge huge -at- huge,org,uk I J Clifton ian,clifton -at- chem,ox,ac,uk Ian Chard G7OMZ ian -at- chard,org Ian Jackson ianREMOVETHISjackson -at- g3ohx,demon,co,uk Jerry Stuckle jstuckle -at- attglobal,net John john,whittingtonpain -at- gmail,com Laurie usenetvoting -at- outlook,com Matthew Vernon matthew -at- debian,org Mike Tomlinson mike -at- jasper,org,uk Nathan Hull nathan -at- hully,co,uk Owen Dunn owend -at- chiark,greenend,org,uk Paul W. Schleck pschleck -at- oasis,novia,net Phil W Lee phil -at- lee-family,me,uk Richard Kettlewell rjk -at- greenend,org,uk Roger Bell_West roger+unna201412 -at- firedrake,org Roger Hayter roger -at- hayter,org Sn!pe aka g8dgc snipe -at- notforspam,fsnet,co,uk Stephen Thomas Cole usenet -at- stephenthomascole,com Victor Meldrew vicmeld -at- gmail,com Wm tcnw81 -at- tarrcity,demon,co,uk crn crn -at- netunix,com lordgnome les -at- corfe-castle,demon,co,uk Voted NO (27) ============= A. non Eyemouse anoneyemouse -at- eml,cc A.Lee alan -at- darkroom,plus,com Brian Brian -at- bjforster,force9,co,uk Brian Morrison bdm -at- fenrir,org,uk Charlie Ivermee charlie -at- peartreegreen,org Clive D.W. Feather clive -at- davros,org David david -at- benison,co,uk Fred Roberts arbiter57 -at- hotmail,co,uk G6JPG G6JPG -at- soft255,demon,co,uk John the R-T t_e_n_e_s_u -at- hotmail,com Llymru llymru -at- gmail,com MW3QRO mw3qro -at- gmail,com Mark Goodge mark -at- good-stuff,co,uk Mike Fleming mike -at- tauzero,co,uk Molly Mockford uram -at- mollymockford,me,uk Owen Rees owenrees -at- fastmail,fm Paul Cummins paulcummins -at- tiscali,co,uk Pedt so -at- manygiggl,es Peter Parry peter -at- wpp,ltd,uk Philip R Barr gi8lbp -at- gi4gov,plus,com Road_Hog lordsmith -at- gmail,com Rob Morley nospam -at- ntlworld,com Sara Merriman sarakirk -at- blueyonder,co,uk Spike Aero,Spike -at- mail,com Steve g8izy -at- blueyonder,co,uk kat littlelionne -at- hotmail,com paul {voter} -at- watman,clara,co,uk Voted ABSTAIN (2) ================= Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI g3vki -at- turner-smith,co,uk antoniusliberalis antoniusliberalis -at- inbox,com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Votetakers Comments: Not the simplest of votes for a number of reasons: 1) Problems with the UKVoting mail server meaning that ballot papers could not be sent to some people for a short period of time. This was resolved by Jon and all ballot requests were replied to. Apologies to anyone whose request was delayed. There was a lot of discussion in unnc about the way in which this was brought to our attention. Whilst thanking Stephen for trying to make us aware (and there's nothing wrong with posting to unn* to achieve this) an email to either the votetaker or to ukvoting@ukvoting.org.uk is the more likely way to get a speedy reply, these tend to be checked more often than we can read unnc. 2) There was a problem with email between the UKVoting server and the server hosting drabble.me.uk where the votes were being forwarded to and acknowledged from. This was picked up internally, resolved, and the archive on ukvoting.org.uk (which is always the definitive record of votes) used to find and ack those votes that did not make the drabble.me.uk address. 3) The message posted by Stephen Thomas Cole to comp.misc in Message-ID: . Whilst this posting was definitely biased, was posted to a group whose relevance was tenuous at best and requested people to vote in a particular way I did not feel it necessary to stop the vote. This was for two reasons a) The posting was late in the CFV process allowing the impact to be measured and b) The post did not breach the letter of the instructions contained within the CFV. In the case of a) I am satisfied that the post did not lead to an anomalously large number of YES votes. In the case of b) while the letter of the CFV may not have been breached the post definitely could be seen as having the potential to undermine the integrity of the vote by encouraging disinterested readers to vote in a biased way. Had the post been earlier in the CFV I would have had little choice but to declare the vote NULL and VOID. In light of this it will probably be good to codify much of what has previously evolved through custom and previous UK Voting and Committee decisions to ensure the guidelines to supporters are clearer. UKVoting already have guidelines in this area that are given to proponents prior to the vote (see http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/resources/procedure.html) and it may be a good idea to incorporate these into the CFV to guide other supporters. I am also aware of Message-ID: to nl.radio.amateur and Message-ID: <1lvq7hz.twvblb114yd37N%snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk> to uk.rec.sheds (both on 26th November). Both of these are significantly less controversial. The former is to a related group (and, unlike Stephen's later post does not request people vote in a particular way), the latter is scrupulously neutral in tone and merely points people to the CFV. Finally a brief note regarding the filling in of ballot papers. A large percentage of people failed to comply with the instructions to either "Delete this line and everything above it" or to "Please ensure that the [ and ] remain on the same line". Both of these make ballot papers much less parseable automatically and therefore add to the work the vote taker needs to do during the vote. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting. UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs on behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties. The rules under which this vote is taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: The UKVoting web pages can be found at There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control (at) usenet (dot) org (dot) uk. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RATIONALE uk.radio.amateur.moderated is a moderated alternative to the existing uk.radio.amateur newsgroup.  Over the past several years, the traffic on uk.radio.amateur has become largely flame wars, spam, and personal ad-hominem discussions of past, present, and future violations and violators, having little or no bearing on amateur radio.  Polite requests by serious group posters to the offenders to refrain from such behaviour have not resulted in elimination of such behaviour and has in fact resulted in another series of flame wars.  As a result, many knowledgeable and concerned posters in uk.radio.amateur have ceased being active therein. It is expected that offering a moderated group will persuade those who formerly participated to resume their participation in rational, focused, and informed discussion.  Proper moderation will enable serious postings to the group to remain on topic while not limiting who can voice opinions or what opinions can be voiced. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NEWSGROUPS LINE uk.radio.amateur.moderated Amateur radio and related matters (Moderated) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ CHARTER uk.radio.amateur.moderated uk.radio.amateur.moderated is for the discussion of amateur ("ham") radio, also known as the Amateur Radio Service, in the United Kingdom. Possible topics include past, present, and future operating practices; events; contests; past, present, and potential-future rules; power limitations; authorised frequencies; allowed modes and band plans (or other gentlemen's agreements) that govern how we are to operate; what constitutes the acceptable operation of amateur stations. This newsgroup is only intended to supplement, not supercede, any other amateur radio newsgroups. General communications law or government policy of various government agencies is also on-topic, as long as the discussion relates to amateur radio. Examples would be emergency communications, local antenna restrictions, and property deed restrictions applying to operation of amateur radio stations. Discussion of other types of radio, such as Citizens Band, Broadcast, other Personal Radio Services, Commercial or Private Land Mobile, and Marine or Aviation services are off-topic, except when *directly* related to amateur radio. 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