From control@usenet.org.uk Sat May 9 21:04:28 BST 1998 Article: 1076 of uk.net.news.announce Path: pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!bowl.news.pipex.net!weld.news.pipex.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!sun4nl!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!illuin.demon.co.uk!control From: Robert Felton Newsgroups: uk.net.news.config,uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.management Subject: Amended Results of Changes to the voting system CFV Followup-To: uk.net.news.management Date: 9 May 1998 02:45:13 +0100 Organization: A Good Idea(tm) Approved: Richard Letts Message-ID: Reply-To: control@usenet.org.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: illuin.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: illuin.demon.co.uk:158.152.202.79 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 894680997 nnrp-11:3317 NO-IDENT illuin.demon.co.uk:158.152.202.79 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 297 Xref: pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk uk.net.news.config:42349 uk.net.news.announce:1076 uk.net.news.management:974 Status: OR -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES Summary: Changes to the voting system PROPOSAL 1 Addition of ROD PASSES 56:10 PROPOASL 2 Including status quo mandatory PASSES 63:3 PORPOSAL 3 Use of the Condorcet System PASSES 46:17 - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Voting closed at 23:59:59 BST, 28 April 1998. Proponent: pb10003@cam.ac.uk (Paul Bolchover) Votetaker: votequestion@swinny.cix.co.uk (Rob Felton) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Distribution: uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.net.news.management - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Results: The results follow below, with the Rationale and the changes to the Guidelines beneath them for informational purposes. PROPOSAL 1 - Addition of ROD YES = 56 NO = 10 ABSTAIN = 6 YES beat NO by a majority of 46 votes, this is more than the +12 majority required to beat the status quo. PROPOSAL 2 - Including status quo mandatory YES = 63 NO = 3 ABSTAIN = 6 YES beat NO by a majority of 60 votes, this is more than the +12 majority required to beat the status quo. PROPOSAL 3 - Use of the Condorcet System YES = 46 NO = 17 ABSTAIN = 9 YES beat NO by a majority of 29 votes, this is more than the +12 majority required to beat the status quo. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Particulars of the Vote PROPOASL NB Abs = Abstain 1 2 3 Malcolm Mladenovic mbmatacmorg Abs Yes No Chris Ritson C.R.Ritsonatncl,acuk Yes Yes Abs Leo leoatventurer.demon,couk Yes Abs Yes Charles Bryant cond.vote.chatchch.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Chris Keen voteataimless.demon,couk No Yes No Rowland Carson rowilatclara.net Yes Yes Yes Neil P Chue Hong npchattardis.ed,acuk Yes Yes Abs Kevin Bracey kbraceyatacorn,couk Yes Yes Yes Martin Biddiscombe M.Biddiscombeatucl,acuk No Yes Yes Dave Spencer datdsds.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Pekka P. Pirinen pppatpirinen.demon,couk No Yes Yes John Line jml4atcus.cam,acuk Yes Yes Yes Tim Sharrock tjsharrockatiee.org Yes Yes Yes Pete Humble peetatdircon,couk Yes Yes No William Boughton billatxencat.demon,couk Abs Yes Yes Duncan Dewar duncanatdewar.softnet,couk Yes Yes Yes Ian Clifton ianatmelvin.dp.ox,acuk Yes Yes Yes Richard Clayton richardatturnpike.com Yes Yes Abs John Robinson johnatthebeard.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes NF Stevens normanatarcady.u-net.com Yes Yes Yes Angus Gulliver AGULLIVERatprodigy.net Yes Yes Abs Rick Martin rick.martinatpixel-group.com Abs Yes No Christopher Watkins christopheratuffa.demon,couk Abs Abs No Mike mikeatemgee.demon,couk Yes Yes No Ken Piper piper-kjatpiper-kj.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Iain Bowen iainatharlech.demon,couk Yes Yes No Colin Cockerill colincatbtinternet.com No Yes Yes David M. Bloor davidatbloor.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Richard Gadsden richardattga.u-net.com Yes Yes Yes Peter Corlett abuseatverrine.demon,couk Yes Yes No Tony Towers satatsystematic,couk Yes Yes Yes Dave Williams daveatdemon.net Yes Yes No Rob Alexander robatmhairi.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Jonathan Wheeler J.F.Wheeleratrl,acuk Yes No Abs Steve Inglis Singlisatbcde.demon,couk Yes Abs No jon ivar skullerud jonivaratph.ed,acuk No Abs Yes Alex Holden alexhatclara.net Yes Yes Yes Sarah Baker sarahatsimple-signshop.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes David Jones djonesatborve.demon,couk No Yes Abs Peter Parry Peteratwppltd.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Arwel Parry arwelatcartref.demon,couk Yes Yes No Tobias Erle torexatsnafu.de Yes Yes Yes Roger Chapman r.chapmanatzetnet,couk Yes Yes Yes Peter Bell peteratbell.demon,couk Yes Yes No Simon Gray simonatstar-one.org.uk Yes Yes No Thomas Lee tflatpsp,couk Yes Yes Yes Richard Ashton richardatcorixia.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Chris M Dickson chrisatdickson.demon,couk Yes Abs Yes Christopher Dearlove chrisatmnemosyne.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Charles Lindsey chlatclw.cs.man,acuk Yes Yes Yes Julie Brandon julieatmerp.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Paul Bolchover pb10003atcus.cam,acuk Yes Yes Yes David Damerell damerellatchiark.greenend.org.uk Yes Yes Yes Neil Fernandez ncfatborve.demon,couk No Yes Abs Alex D. Baxter a.baxteratic,acuk No Yes Yes Aidan Folkes af67Yes5atbristol,acuk Yes Yes Yes Dave Mayall mayalldatpostoffice,couk Abs Yes Yes Tony Walton tony.waltonatsun,couk Yes No Yes Dave Sparks Dave.Sparksatsisyphus.demon,couk No Yes Yes James Lawson chasmatccl4.org No Yes No Claire Speed c.speedatmcc,acuk Yes Yes No Dan Glover danatdangl.demon,couk Yes Yes No Nigel Riley NigeRileyataolcom Yes Yes Yes Andy Mabbett amabbettatbham-assist.demon,couk Abs Abs Abs Steven Clarke steven.clarkeatmonmouth.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Lyn Thomas lynatstuffing.demon,couk Yes No No Terry Phillips Terryphiataolcom Yes Yes Yes Neil Irving neilatneilirving.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Jim Hill jimatjh-c.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Lesley Simpson news1atcorwyn.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Fred Barber fredbatfrolix8.demon,couk Yes Yes Yes Darren Meldrum darrenatmeldrum,couk Yes Yes Abs Invalid Votes No Name or Address on ballot paper (or both) James Nash J.Nashatmdx,acuk Joseph Otten joe.ottenatvirgin.net Mark Brown broonieattardis.ed,acuk Alan Fleming afatcontract,couk Spoilt ballot paper Hilde Fernandez hildeatborve.demon,couk - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rationale: Recent results have brought to people's attention the fact that the current guidelines on the 12-vote majority rule are ambiguous when applied to ballots with multiple options. Previous RFDs have suggested various systems to resolve this issue, and after several straw polls, the majority of people seem to prefer a form of Condorcet. There have also been substational support for the inclusion of a "Reopen Discussion" option to be on the ballot paper, so that if a group were objected to purely on naming issues, a further RFD may be issued without waiting for 3 months to pass. This CFV also includes a further proposal to ensure that the status quo, should it exist, must go on the ballot paper. Description of Rationale: Recent results have brought to people's attention the fact that the current guidelines on the 12-vote majority rule are ambiguous when applied to ballots with multiple options. Previous RFDs have suggested various systems to resolve this issue, and after several straw polls, the majority of people seem to prefer a form of Condorcet. There have also been substational support for the inclusion of a "Reopen Discussion" option to be on the ballot paper, so that if a group were objected to purely on naming issues, a further RFD may be issued without waiting for 3 months to pass. This CFV also includes a further proposal to ensure that the status quo, should it exist, must go on the ballot paper. Description of Condorcet System: The voter ranks each of the options (including the status quo and ROD) in order. For each pair of options, the vote-taker calculates the difference between the number of people who placed option A above option B and vice versa. First, all options are discarded if they do not have a majority of at least 12 votes versus the status quo. Out of these options, the winning one is the one which is preferred to each of the others. Should there not be such an option (i.e. there is a "top set"), then discussion is reopened. PROPOSALS: All these proposals are for changes to the document "Voting Procedures within the UK Hierarchy". Those sections in <> are to included if proposal 1 succeeds, those section in {{curly brackets}} are to included if proposal 1 fails. Proposal 1: [Addition of ROD] In the section "the vote" add the following paragraph: "8) When a vote calls for a choice between several mutually exclusive options, an alternative "Reopen Discussion" (ROD) option must be included. Additionally, this option shall be included in any ballot should the committee so request, or if 4 or more people so petition during the RFD stage. If ROD succeeds, the proponent should issue a new RFD containing further options. The ROD option shall not be offered after the second distinct vote on any one proposal." Proposal 2: [Making the inclusion of the status quo mandatory] In the section "the vote", append the following to paragraph 1: "Should a status quo for the proposal exist, the voter must be given the opportunity to vote for it, either by voting explicitly for the status quo or by voting against the proposal." Proposal 3: [Use of the Condorcet System] In the section "the vote", delete the last sentence of paragraph 7 and add the following paragraph: "9) For a vote between several mutually exclusive options, the voters shall be asked to indicate their relative preference amongst the given options, which shall include the status quo (if one exists)<< and may include "Reopen Discussion" (ROD)>>. It is permitted to give the same preference level to more than one option; voters should be encouraged to ascribe some preference level to each option." In the section "the result" insert the following paragraph and renumber the following one. "4) For a vote between several mutually exclusive options, the vote-taker will establish, for each possible pair of options A and B, how many voters prefer A over B and vice versa. All options which are not preferred to the status quo (if present) by the required margin are eliminated. If this eliminates all options, then the status quo shall prevail. The option which is accepted is the one remaining option which is not outvoted by any other (if there are two or more such options, the tie shall be resolved by lot). If there is no absolute preferred candidate of those remaining, <>{{a further RFD may be issued by the proponent}}.": - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Votetakers Notes: 15 votes were missed when the original results were compiled and so have now been added, this was 13 new votes and two people votes amended from a second vote. I apologise for these votes being missed and has identified a weakness within my processing system which I have now changed to remove this weakness. Comments on the exclusion of the spoilt paper are stated within the uk.net.news.management newsgroup and not suitable for this section. It seems certain people still do not clearly read the statements from UKVoting or the Voting Instructions, and so four votes are wasted due to the name or email address not being provided. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting. UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs in the uk hierarchy. The rules under which this vote is taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting The UKVoting web pages can be found at http://www.cirra.com/ukvoting/ There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control@usenet.org.uk. Thanks Swinny - Rob Felton Deputy Co-Ordinator, UKVoting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBNVO1G2OfGXkh8vHZAQFx8QP+LM4widTAE53G2ljzEBIoo7fylU9QhGom PoR7Fuq8fmpVw3cVsnnFfU5Kg3mvtyIM1B5IDnGFqz5ccRGMKc80sD+Ux/8h30sR Fal+Sv4km6Lsgq3XRuSFqA8oNkcviDlotoBcAgTpEmmI85cVgZrZgFjcdMVtVDPD PIR+pFQZW54= =xvtX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----