From voting@harlech.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 6 19:59:49 GMT 1997 Article: 536 of uk.net.news.announce Path: lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!194.159.102.1!news.fido.net!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!harlech.demon.co.uk!harlech.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: voting@harlech.demon.co.uk (Iain Bowen) Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5,uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.social,uk.media.tv.sf.misc Subject: RESULT: uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5 votes Followup-To: uk.net.news.config Date: 27 Dec 1996 13:45:26 -0000 Organization: Templorum Resurgens Equites Synarchi Lines: 348 Sender: voting@harlech.demon.co.uk (Iain Bowen) Approved: voting@harlech.demon.co.uk (with permission of control@usenet.org.uk) Message-ID: <5a0jtm$cmr@harlech.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: voting@harlech.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: harlech.demon.co.uk Keywords: babylon5 CFV result X-NNTP-Posting-Host: harlech.demon.co.uk X-No-Archive: yes Xref: lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk uk.net.news.announce:536 uk.net.news.config:14171 uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5:62429 uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.social:2175 uk.media.tv.sf.misc:5311 Status: OR RESULT Change of Charter of uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5 Creation of Newsgroup uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.misc Voting closed 23:59:59 10th December 1996. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UK-VOTING. UK-VOTING is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFV's in the uk hierarchy. The rules under which this vote was taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting. Further information on UK-VOTING can be found at http://www.harlech.demon.co.uk For voting questions only contact voting@harlech.demon.co.uk (Iain Bowen). For questions about the new groups contact the proposer at the address given below: Simon Gray Distribution: uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5 uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.social, uk.media.tv.sf.misc Summary: Charter is changed uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.misc created Rationale: Approximately 2 1/2 years ago the newsgroup uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5 was created, with the intention of being a haven where UK viewers of the series could discuss it in a 'safe space' - the existing Global newsgroup (rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5) was largely dominated by US citizens, who were in the fortunate position of seeing most of the episodes of the programme several months ahead of the rest of the world. It is the nature of this particular programme that it is an ongoing story, with various plot points progressively revealed. In much the same manner of a murder mystery, a large portion of the enjoyment of watching this programme is derived from trying to work out what is going to happen next from the clues already given, but to have such predictions confirmed in advance by those who have seen episodes ahead, for some, totally ruins the enjoyment. For this reason, a uk.* newsgroup with a clearly defined 'spoiler policy' was created. That spoiler policy is outlined thus: --- Absolutely *no* information about episodes not seen anywhere in the UK may be posted. In the S4C reception area, viewers see the programme somewhat later than those in the C4 reception area - usually between 1 & 2 weeks later. For this reason all postings on new episodes must be clearly labelled, with the word 'Spoilers' in the subject line. Furthermore, because not all newsgroup readers are using modern threaded newsreaders, each posting must have at least 25 lines of blank space, & preferably a ^L, at the start until such time as the S4C viewers have seen the episode. --- Unfortunately, since the group was created there have been a number of people who have chosen to completely ignore this policy. Such people are never going to be convinced to behave sociably, so this rfd is not for them. However, there have also been a number of people who have joined the group later, & had a genuine grievance with the policy as it stands, as it was created long ago, & perhaps quite reasonably feel that as the membership of the newsgroup is now markedly different that it is in the interests of democracy to reevaluate the policy to take into account the wishes of the current membership of the group. Furthermore, there have arisen situations, such as the release of graphic novels, books, & attendance at conventions, which were not accounted for in the beginning & have been a cause for confusion & disagreement. Charters: Proposed Change to Spoiler Policy in Charter for Vote 1: ABSOLUTELY NO discussion is permitted in the newsgroup of any episodes that have not been broadcast by Channel 4. If you have seen an episode in advance of the Channel 4 broadcast & wish to talk about it, then the places to do such a thing are the international forums like rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5, or the CompuServe forums. Similarly, ABSOLUTELY NO story information gleaned from sources such as magazine articles or other newsgroups in advance of the UK TV broadcast is permitted. ABSOLUTELY NO discussion is permitted in the newsgroup of sources of plot information which have not been derived by viewing the television programme as broadcast in the UK by C4 or S4C which may constitute a spoiler to those who are only following the television programme. Such sources of information include (but are not limited to) the textual & graphical novels, the role playing games, attendance at conventions etc. One appropriate place for such discussion is the newsgroup uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.[newname] For your guidance, here are a couple of comments on what defines a spoiler: "A spoiler is any piece of information which has the potential to adversely affect an individual's enjoyment of a previously unseen episode. You will note the phrase 'has the potential to adversely affect' and not 'adversely affects'. The reason is simple: different people are of different sensitivities, and have different ideas on what marres their enjoyment. It is not for any one of us to tell the other how to enjoy it, but courtesy merits consideration of the most flexible definition that accomodates the most tastes. In addition, an illegal spoiler is any piece of information (such as the title of episode 322 - Z'Ha'Dum) which the story's creator jms has expressly stated that advanced knowledge of which is going to be a spoiler, until such time as jms states that it is no longer a spoiler for UK viewers." All episodes broadcast by Channel 4 in England, Scotland, & Northern Ireland shall remain 'protected' for the sake of the Welsh who do not get to see the programme on S4C for some time after the rest of the UK - typically between 1 & 2 weeks. The nature of this protection shall be as follows: The word 'S4C!:' shall precede the episode title (or a meaningful abbreviation) at the start of the subject line. The body text of the post shall be preceded by approximately 25 lines of carriage return characters, followed by a ^L character. This 'spoiler space' shall not significantly exceed 30 lines, & neither shall it be filled with 'ascii-art'. You may quote other peoples' spoiler space. ========================================================================= Charter for Vote 2: Newsgroup line: uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.misc The non-tv aspects of Babylon 5 in the UK Charter: This is the newsgroup where you may discuss things you have learned outside of the actual television programme, but nevertheless quite legitimately learned in the UK. Such legitimate sources of information include: The Graphic Novel (comic book) series. The Textual Novel series. The Role Playing Game. Attendance at conventions in the UK. If you wish to discuss such things, then you *must* give adequate warning that you are doing so - some people wish to only know what has been divulged in one form but not others. This warning *must* take a similar form as the protection afforded the Welsh tv viewers - namely, if you are going to talk about the comics, you must start a new thread, have the word 'COMIC' & the issue number at the start of the subject line, & have 25-30 lines of space & a ^L preceding the body of your post. Similarly for the books you must precede the subject line with 'BOOK', for conventions have the word 'CONVENTION', for the role playing games the word 'RPG', & for other sources a similarly identifiable abbreviation, all also including the spoiler space. Please reproduce these flags *exactly*, as that enables people who wish to totally ignore such postings to set their killfiles accordingly. ABSOLUTELY NO discussion is permitted in the newsgroup of any episodes that have not been broadcast by Channel 4. If you have seen an episode in advance of the Channel 4 broadcast & wish to talk about it, then the places to do such a thing are the international forums like rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5, or the CompuServe forums. Similarly, ABSOLUTELY NO story information gleaned from sources such as magazine articles or other newsgroups in advance of the UK TV broadcast is permitted. (Please note that discussion of actual plot information revealed at conventions discussing episodes not yet broadcast in the UK is also forbidden - again, the correct place for that is one of the international forums) Please do not discuss the actual television programme in this group, unless such discussion is relevant to non-tv material discussion - the place to discuss the tv programme is uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5 Crossposting to other Babylon 5 newsgroups is discouraged; further, it is *FORBIDDEN* to crosspost to another Babylon 5 newsgroup where your posting is going to infringe that charter/spoiler policy of that newsgroup. Binary postings are FORBIDDEN. Advertising is only acceptable when it is short, when it is relevant to the primary topic of the newsgroup (ie Babylon 5), & when what is advertised is reasonably available to the UK readership of the group. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote 1, First Count, Quota = 30 a = Reword the spoiler policy 42 ELECTED b = Keep the current spoiler policy 11 c = Carry on discussion 5 Vote 2, First Count, Quota = 31 a = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.other 6 b = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.misc 27 c = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.non-tv 9 d = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.spin-offs 2 ELIMINATED e = Do not create a new newsgroup 12 f = Carry on Discussion 4 ELIMINATED Second Count, 3 Non-transferable, Quota = 29 a = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.other 6 + 2 = 8 ELIMINATED b = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.misc 27 = 27 c = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.non-tv 9 = 9 e = Do not create a new newsgroup 12 + 1 = 13 Third Count, 0 Non-transferable, Quota = 29 b = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.misc 27 + 7 = 34 ELECTED c = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.non-tv 9 + 1 = 10 e = Do not create a new newsgroup 13 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FINAL VOTING ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS The following list of addresses is copyright 1996 by the Revolutionary Penguin Press(1985). Use for any purpose other than verifying the vote for this newsgroup is prohibited. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote 1 a = Reword the spoiler policy b = Keep the current spoiler policy c = Carry on discussion Vote 2 a = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.other b = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.misc c = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.non-tv d = Create uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5.spin-offs e = Do not create a new newsgroup f = Carry on Discussion Vote 1 Vote 2 a b c a b c d e f Mark Bailey mfbailey@bmedia.u-net.com 3 1 2 Sarah Baker sarah@simple-signship.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 2 1 3 4 5 6 Hilarie Berzins Hilarie@doctec.demon.co.uk 2 1 1 Tony Blakeaway Sonic@aqualung.demon.co.uk 3 2 1 5 6 3 4 1 2 Paul Bolchover pb10003@cus.cam.ac.uk 3 1 2 6 5 4 3 2 1 David Boothroyd david@election.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 1 Phil Boswell Phil.Boswell@codd-date.co.uk 1 2 3 2 4 1 3 6 5 Adam Calow adam@adc.netkonect.co.uk 1 1 Richard Challis Richard@challrj.demon.co.uk - ABS - 2 1 3 4 Andrew Clover ajc@puppy.demon.co.uk 2 1 3 6 4 3 5 1 2 Ulric Davis btgsch@rmplc.co.uk 3 1 2 3 1 2 Stephen Diston S.Diston@SpectrumAcoustic.com 1 3 2 2 1 3 4 6 5 Rick Gillyon rick@rgillyon.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 6 5 Alex Glennie aglennie@netcomuk.co.uk 1 2 3 2 1 3 4 6 5 Stephen Gowdy S.Gowdy@ed.ac.uk 1 2 3 1 2 4 5 6 Simon Gray simon@star-one.org.uk 1 1 2 3 Jon S. Green jonsg@harlequin.co.uk 1 2 3 1 Martin Hardgrave Martin@deira.demon.co.uk 1 3 2 4 3 5 6 1 2 Paul Harper paulh@icihqgis.demon.co.uk 3 1 2 2 1 3 4 6 5 Chris Hayes Spanner@larrrrrd.demon.co.uk 2 1 3 2 1 6 5 3 4 Darren Hunter dhunter@netcomuk.co.uk 1 2 3 2 1 3 Christopher Hutton HUTTONCM@pcmail.aston.ac.uk 1 2 3 2 1 Robbie Irvine robert.irvine@gecm.com 1 2 3 2 1 3 4 5 6 Ian Jefferies Ian.Jefferies@eudoxus.demon.co.uk 1 3 2 1 Richard Lavey richard@startide.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 2 1 3 4 6 5 Mark Lawson mlawson@dmu.ac.uk 2 1 3 3 2 5 6 1 4 Barbara Lee barbara@barley.u-net.com 1 2 3 2 3 4 1 5 6 Andy Leigh andy-ankh@idiscover.net 1 2 4 1 3 2 Charles Lindsey clw@clw.cs.man.ac.uk - ABS - 2 4 3 1 5 6 Duncan MacGregor dmm20@thor.cam.ac.uk 1 2 3 5 6 3 4 1 2 Maura B McCoy jamccoy@maurabrid.win-uk.net 1 2 3 2 3 1 4 6 5 Brian McIlwrath bkm@star.rl.ac.uk 3 2 1 5 3 4 6 1 2 Angus Manwaring Angus@angusm.demon.co.uk 1 2 1 4 3 David Mayall david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk 1 2 3 Ruth Mitchell ELP95RJM@sheffield.ac.uk 1 2 3 1 2 4 3 6 5 Piran Montford piran@pobox.com 1 3 2 3 4 1 2 6 5 Jeremy Morley jmorley@ps.ucl.ac.uk 1 2 3 1 2 4 6 5 3 David R. Morgan morgad@mail.eclipse.co.uk 1 2 1 3 Bryan Morton bryan@crthoris.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 3 1 2 4 6 5 Jim Nicholson jim@minusen.prestel.co.uk 1 ---- INVALID --- Nick O'Brian N.OBrien@canterbury.ac.uk 3 2 1 4 3 6 5 1 2 Susan O'Neill soneill@waverider.co.uk 1 2 1 2 Arwel Parry arwel@cartref.demon.co.uk 2 1 3 2 1 3 4 Pekka Pirinen ppp@pirinen.demon.co.uk 2 1 3 2 1 Ian Pitcher i.c.pitcher@ncl.ac.uk 1 2 3 2 1 3 4 5 6 Barry Platt barry@boognish.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 3 2 1 4 5 6 Iain Rae iainr@civ.hw.ac.uk 3 1 2 4 1 5 6 3 2 Marc Read Marc@rauko.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 4 2 1 3 6 5 Mark Rigby-Jones mark.rigby-jones@keble.oxford.ac.uk 1 3 2 2 1 3 4 6 5 Raj Rijhwani raj@courtfld.demon.co.uk 1 2 2 1 Lesley Simpson Lesley@corwyn.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 1 2 Mark Sinclair mark@rovanion.demon.co.uk 1 2 1 Mickey Stewart M.S.Stewart@durham.ac.uk 1 3 2 2 1 5 6 4 3 Tony Towers sat@systematic.co.uk 1 1 2 Jon Turner jon@esmf.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 3 4 6 5 1 2 Kevin Valentine kevin@physchem.ox.ac.uk 1 2 3 2 3 1 4 6 5 Ian Vincent ian@binny.demon.co.uk 2 1 1 Henry Ward hward@thenet.co.uk 1 2 3 2 1 3 4 5 6 Eric Westbrook eric@westbr.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 2 1 4 5 3 6 Chris Wheeler chris@terim.demon.co.uk 1 2 3 2 1 4 3 5 6 Julian White u4d14@cc.keele.ac.uk 2 1 3 3 1 2 4 Dave Wonnacott ddxw@msslac.mssl.ucl.ac.uk 1 2 3 1 REJECTED BALLOTS Joel Goodwin Vote posted through URL. Invalid. Alison Hodges Vote sent from one account, reply directed to another account with an invalid address in the headers. Axis V Allies Vote sent from pseudonym account with broken headers VOTETAKERS NOTES I made an error with the sending of acknowledgements, I had used some features within my mailer to quasi-automate this. Sadly, there was a minor bugette here but it was fixed within two days and I estimate that only a few people received blank acks. I would like to thank Malc Arnold for technical assistance with af over this. Please DO NOT put CFV's on the web. Firstly, mailto links can be spoofed and secondly, people forget to take the pages down and I'm still getting the bloody votes a year later. OK, the separate ballot forms was a mistake, but it was a processing experiment that was worth trying. The change to the placeholders on the second rash of ballots was worth trying as well, but it was equally dismal as it proved that people just can't read the instructions. My lovely perl script managed to auto-process less than 30% of ballots sent, so it was back to emacs and various fgrep/awk things. However, despite the small cock-up mentioned in the first paragraph, the sending of acks is now much quicker. I noticed for the first time a spamblock in one of the votes. Whilst I understand the reasons for doing this, I am NOT going to fiddle around with replies for this. If the address in your From: of Reply-To: headers is spamblocked then you will not cast a valid vote. Did I ever tell you how much I loathe MIME messages that are quoted-unreadable, I do wish that if people just send text, they would turn MIME off. -- Iain D. Bowen - Volunteer Votetaker, UK-VOTING. voting(at)harlech.demon.co.uk please use alaric(at)harlech.demon.co.uk for personal mail. UK-VOTING web pages are at http://www.harlech.demon.co.uk/ukvoting.htm