From control@usenet.org.uk Thu Apr 16 00:50:09 BST 1998 Article: 1033 of uk.net.news.announce Path: lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!bowl.news.pipex.net!weld.news.pipex.net!hose.news.pipex.net!grot.news.pipex.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!illuin.demon.co.uk!control From: SJFBeckwith Newsgroups: uk.net.news.management,uk.net.news.config,uk.net.news.announce Subject: RESULT: Amendment to guidelines (retromoderation) - Proposal B wins. Followup-To: uk.net.news.management Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:05:53 GMT Sender: Richard Letts Approved: Richard Letts Message-ID: Reply-To: control@usenet.org.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: illuin.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: illuin.demon.co.uk:158.152.202.79 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 892670871 nnrp-05:20873 NO-IDENT illuin.demon.co.uk:158.152.202.79 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 240 Xref: lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk uk.net.news.management:577 uk.net.news.config:41185 uk.net.news.announce:1033 Status: OR -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES Summary: Amendment to guidelines (retromoderation) - Proposal B wins. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, 10th April 1998. Proponent: jonivar@ph.ed.ac.uk (jon ivar skullerud) Votetaker: sjfb@steves.org.uk (SJFBeckwith) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Distribution: uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.net.news.management - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Results: Ban Retromoderation? Status Quo = 13 Proposal A = 11 Proposal B = 47 ReOpen Discussion = 1 Proposal B wins as it has over half the potential votes. (i.e. if all votes, other than those for proposal b, were transfered to the same option it would still fail to beat proposal b.) Therefore, the Guidelines should be changed as detailed in PROPOSAL B. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rationale: Recently, a proposal has been put forward for a retromoderated group in the uk.* hierarchy, and the possibility of retromoderation has been mentioned in several other rfds. Retromoderation ('moderating' a group by cancelling articles) is a) inefficient - the articles will have been read by many people before the cancel message propagates, and some sites do not even respect cancel messages, b) wasteful - involving the issuing of extra messages, thereby potentially increasing the use of bandwidth, c) unnecessary - traditional moderation can perform all the functions that retromoderation is intended to perform, and robomoderation will in most cases do so much more efficiently, d) abuse of the cancel mechanism - only the sender and the newsadmin on the sender's site has the authority to issue cancels for their own articles (except in the case of forged approvals in moderated newsgroups, which can be cancelled by the moderator). Retromoderation involves forging the From: or Sender: field of a message to make it appear to news software that it comes from the sender of the original article, and is likely to lead to diminishing respect for the cancel mechanism in the longer term. Spam-cancelling is grudgingly accepted by most newsadmins, but only because it is the lesser of two evils and takes place according to strict, content-independent guidelines, something that is not the case for retromoderation. Because of this, retromoderation has no place in a well-managed hierarchy, and should not be allowed in uk.*. This should be clearly stated in the guidelines, along with the ban on binaries in non-binary hierarchies.The rationale for the proposal including any points raised at the RFD stage. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Proposal A: In "Guidelines for group creation within the uk hierarchy", under the section "The Discussion", point 1, paragraph 4, before the sentence "The One-line Summary will eventually...", add the following sentence: Retromoderation, ie moderation of a newsgroup by way of content-based cancelling of articles, is not allowed, and RFDs which include the possibility of retromoderation will not be accepted. Proposal B: In "Guidelines for group creation within the uk hierarchy", under the section "The Discussion", point 1, paragraph 4, before the sentence "The One-line Summary will eventually...", add the following sentence: Retromoderation, ie moderation of a newsgroup by way of content-based cancelling of articles, is not allowed, and RFDs which include the possibility of retromoderation will not be accepted. This does not affect the general power of moderators to cancel articles which have appeared in the group as a result of forgery, catastrophic failure of moderation software, or in other unforseen emergency circumstances. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Particulars of the Vote valid votes name email address s a b r ________________________________________________________________________ alex d. baxter a.baxter;ic.ac.uk 3 2 1 4 alan fleming af%contract.co.uk 4 2 1 3 aidan folkes af6715~bristol.ac.uk - 1 2 3 anthony frost afrost*acorn.co.uk 2 - - 1 angus gulliver agulliver;prodigy.net 4 2 1 3 andy mabbett amabbett%bham-assist.demon.co.uk - 2 1 - andrew simmonds andrew~c-side.demon.co.uk 3 2 1 4 adrian wontroba aw1*stade.co.uk - - 1 - brian mccauley b.a.mccauley;bham.ac.uk 1 4 2 3 william boughton bill%xencat.demon.co.uk - 2 1 - barry johnson bj~camino.demon.co.uk 3 2 1 4 ben harris bjh21*cam.ac.uk 3 2 1 4 brett paul dunbar brett;dimetrodon.demon.co.uk 3 2 1 4 mark brown broonie%tardis.ed.ac.uk 3 2 1 4 claire speed c.speed~mcc.ac.uk 2 1 4 3 james lawson chasm*ccl4.org - 2 1 - charles lindsey chl;clw.cs.man.ac.uk 1 2 4 3 chris m. dickson chris%dickson.demon.co.uk 1 4 3 2 chris isbell chris~isbell.demon.co.uk 4 2 1 3 colin cockerill colinc*btinternet.com 3 2 1 4 dave mayall david.mayall%ukonline.co.uk 4 2 1 3 dr doug clow djmc100~york.ac.uk - 2 1 3 duncan dewar duncan*dewar.softnet.co.uk 3 4 1 2 jonathan wheeler j.f.wheeler;rl.ac.uk 4 2 1 3 james nash j.nash%mdx.ac.uk 4 1 2 3 jon harley j.w.harley~warwick.ac.uk 4 2 1 3 james lynn james*biometry.demon.co.uk 3 2 1 4 james kemp james;jmkemp.demon.co.uk - 2 1 - john sharman jayshar%norvic.demon.co.uk 4 1 3 2 jeff lewis jeff~rhondda.demon.co.uk 4 2 1 3 j. m. line jml4*cus.cam.ac.uk - 1 2 - john c. elliott john.elliott;bigfoot.com 3 1 2 4 john robinson john%thebeard.demon.co.uk 4 2 1 3 jon ivar skullerud jonivar~ph.ed.ac.uk - 1 2 - dr john stockton jrs*merlyn.demon.co.uk 4 2 1 3 james sears js;null.net 2 - 1 - julie brandon julie%merp.demon.co.uk 1 4 3 2 lyn david thomas lyn~stuffing.demon.co.uk - 2 1 - mark eller mark*ellmar.demon.co.uk - 1 - - mark goodge mark;good-stuff.co.uk 3 2 1 4 martin radford martin%zamenhof.demon.co.uk 2 4 1 3 matthew balyuzi matt~matthewb.demon.co.uk 1 - - 2 max bone maxb*maxmax.demon.co.uk 2 - 1 - darren wyn rees merlin;netlink.co.uk 1 - - 2 michael parry michael%unicorn-connection.co.uk 3 2 1 4 neil irving neil~neilirving.demon.co.uk - 2 1 3 paul womar newsmaster*pwomar.demon.co.uk 1 - - - nickie roome nickie;erewhon.u-net.com - 2 1 - nf stevens norman%arcady.u-net.com 4 2 1 3 paul bolchover pb10003~cus.cam.ac.uk 1 4 3 2 peter duck pduck*zetnet.co.uk 4 2 1 3 peter bell peter;bell.demon.co.uk 4 2 1 3 patrick herring ph%anweald.exnet.co.uk 3 4 1 2 philip hunt philh~vision25.demon.co.uk - 2 1 - phil wade philwade*enterprise.net 3 2 1 - pete humble pjh1;le.ac.uk 1 - - 2 pekka p. pirinen ppp%pirinen.demon.co.uk 1 4 3 2 richard ashton richard~corixia.demon.co.uk 3 2 1 4 richard lamont richard*stonix.demon.co.uk 3 1 2 4 richard clayton richard;turnpike.com - 2 1 3 rick martin rick.martin%pixel-group.com - 1 - - rob alexander rob~mhairi.demon.co.uk 4 2 1 3 robert irvine robert*irvine;gecm.com 4 2 1 3 roy stilling rpjs;kalevala.demon.co.uk 1 3 2 4 simon gray simon%star-one.org.uk - 2 1 - stephen gower stephen.gower~st-catherines.oxford.ac.uk 4 2 1 3 steve sutton steve*etheral.demon.co.uk - 2 1 - steve way steveway;ways.demon.co.uk 1 - - 2 thomas lee tfl%psp.co.uk 3 1 4 2 anthony gold tgold~panix.com 1 - - 2 tim sneath tim.sneath*diamond.co.uk 3 2 1 4 rachael munns vashti;dream.org.uk 4 3 1 2 s status quo a proposal a b proposal b r reopen discussion invalid votes name email problem ________________________________________________________________________ dave sparks dave.sparks;sisyphus.demon.co.uk 2 franck brunel fbrunel%pasteur.fr 3 john c. elliott john.elliott~bigfoot.com 2 marcus durham marcus*zenn.demon.co.uk 4 peter sullivan peter;manorcon.demon.co.uk 2 steve peake puppet%pop.dial.pipex.com 2 thaddeus thaddeus~alexh.clara.net 2 1 acknowledgement bounced. user does not exist at address, address does not exist or address incorrectly input. 2 name or address (or both) was missing from the ballot form. 3 not on ballot form 4 spoilt paper - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Votetakers Notes #1 In an effort to cut out all the crap from postings and make them as readable as possible, I cut out the text of the losing options and the rationale. This appears to have upset a member of the Committee who now claims he cannot accept it as a valid results posting without them. So don't blame me - I tried. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting. UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on CFVs in the uk hierarchy. The rules under which this vote is taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control@usenet.org.uk. SJFBeckwith, - -- Co-Ordinator and Votetaker, UKVoting. 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