From: Barry Salter Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config Subject: RESULT : Amendment to uk.local.* hierarchy charter PASSES Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:41:55 GMT Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- RESULT - Amendment to uk.local.* hierarchy charter Summary of results: =================== STAGE ONE - Options compared to Status Quo: Option 1 preferred to Status Quo by 83 votes to 13 Status Quo preferred to Option 2 by 62 votes to 36 Status Quo preferred to Option 3 by 71 votes to 32 Status Quo preferred to Option 4 by 69 votes to 33 Status Quo preferred to Re-Open Discussion by 74 votes to 23 Option 1 beats Status Quo by 70 votes, therefore it is the winner and Stage Two is not necessary. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Voting closed at 23:59:59 BST, 24th September 1999 Proponent: Philip Powell Votetaker: Barry Salter Distribution: uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Results: The results follow below in the following order: 1) Results 2) Particulars of the Vote 3) Votetakers Comments 4) Voting and Appeal Guidelines 5) Rationale 6) Summary of Discussion 7) Existing Charter 8) Proposed Amendments 9) Amended Charter - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RESULTS: RAW PREFERENCES GRID 1 2 3 4 ROD SQ Option 1 [n/a] [ 82] [ 81] [ 81] [ 87] [ 83] Option 2 [ 17] [n/a] [ 45] [ 42] [ 54] [ 36] Option 3 [ 22] [ 36] [n/a] [ 30] [ 46] [ 32] Option 4 [ 22] [ 39] [ 34] [n/a] [ 47] [ 33] ROD [ 14] [ 42] [ 54] [ 52] [n/a] [ 23] Status Quo [ 13] [ 62] [ 71] [ 69] [ 74] [n/a] In this grid, each number represents the number of votes which were cast that preferred the option named in the number's row to the option appropriate to the number's column. For instance, 82 votes preferred option one to option two while 14 votes preferred reopening the discussion to option one. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PARTICULARS OF THE VOTE: Amendment to uk.local.* hierarchy charter Final Vote Ack In view of the fact that this is a six option ballot, the vote details are presented below in two separate parts. Name Address Aaron Fuller fulleraaron.AT.OR.NEAR.ukonline.oc.ku Al Menzies al.AT.OR.NEAR.betterwords.u-net.moc Alan Fleming af.AT.OR.NEAR.contract.oc.ku Alan Rawlings alanr.AT.OR.NEAR.bpcf.u-net.moc Alex D. Baxter alex-news.AT.OR.NEAR.oenone.demon.oc.ku Alex Dawson a.dawson.AT.OR.NEAR.virgin.nte Alex Foster alex.foster.AT.OR.NEAR.zetnet.oc.ku Alex Holden alex.AT.OR.NEAR.alexh.clara.oc.ku Andrew Gierth andrew.AT.OR.NEAR.erlenstar.demon.oc.ku Andrew MacGregor macgregor.AT.OR.NEAR.free4all.oc.ku Andrew Wineberg a.wineberg.AT.OR.NEAR.whitewine.freeserve.oc.ku Andy Mabbett andy.AT.OR.NEAR.pigsonthewing.demon.oc.ku Andy Roberts andyrobts.AT.OR.NEAR.zetnet.oc.ku Andy Walker a.j.walker.AT.OR.NEAR.virgin.nte Anthony Gold tgold.AT.OR.NEAR.panix.moc Arwel Parry arwel.AT.OR.NEAR.cartref.demon.oc.ku Bill bill.AT.OR.NEAR.billybubbles.demon.oc.ku Bill Hay wish.AT.OR.NEAR.dumain.demon.oc.ku Blade Runner black-dog.AT.OR.NEAR.geocities.moc Brian McCauley b.a.mccauley.AT.OR.NEAR.bham.ac.uk Charles F Hankel charles.AT.OR.NEAR.hankel.mersinet.oc.ku Charles Lindsey chl.AT.OR.NEAR.clw.cs.man.ac.uk Chris Croughton chris.AT.OR.NEAR.keris.demon.oc.ku Chris Keen vote.AT.OR.NEAR.aimless.demon.oc.ku Claire Speed c.speed.AT.OR.NEAR.mcc.ac.uk Conor O'Neill conor.AT.OR.NEAR.puddle.oc.ku Dave Mayall mayalld.AT.OR.NEAR.postoffice.oc.ku Dave Sparks dave.sparks.AT.OR.NEAR.sisyphus.demon.oc.ku David david_local.AT.OR.NEAR.paneltot.demon.oc.ku David Cantrell nukeemup.AT.OR.NEAR.thepentagon.moc David Clapham dave.AT.OR.NEAR.community-spirit.demon.oc.ku David Damerell damerell.AT.OR.NEAR.chiark.greenend.org.uk Denis F bedfordtlfan.AT.OR.NEAR.yahoo.moc Denis McMahon denis.AT.OR.NEAR.pickaxe.demon.oc.ku Doug Weller dweller.AT.OR.NEAR.ramtops.demon.oc.ku Duncan Dewar duncan.AT.OR.NEAR.brandane.demon.oc.ku E. J. Jewell ejewell.AT.OR.NEAR.chy-an-piran.demon.oc.ku Ellen Mizzell ellen.AT.OR.NEAR.tictac.demon.oc.ku Gareth J Dykes gareth.AT.OR.NEAR.riscos.moc Gary Jones gazza.jones.AT.OR.NEAR.virgin.nte Glenys Pople gkp.AT.OR.NEAR.howfen.demon.oc.ku Graham Willmott graham.AT.OR.NEAR.netgates.oc.ku Helge Nareid h.nareid.AT.OR.NEAR.nareid.demon.oc.ku Hugh Simmons hugh.AT.OR.NEAR.st-ronan.demon.oc.ku Iain iain.AT.OR.NEAR.deepsea.force9.oc.ku Iain Bowen alaric.AT.OR.NEAR.harlech.demon.oc.ku Iain Rae iainr.AT.OR.NEAR.civ.hw.ac.uk James Coupe james.AT.OR.NEAR.obeah.demon.oc.ku James Farrar james.AT.OR.NEAR.sfgiants22.freeserve.oc.ku Jane Vernon jane.AT.OR.NEAR.otbo.demon.oc.ku Jason Waghorn wj.AT.OR.NEAR.tesco.nte Jezza jezza.AT.OR.NEAR.hotwells.freeserve.oc.ku Jim Hill jim.AT.OR.NEAR.jh-c.demon.oc.ku Jo Walton jo.AT.OR.NEAR.bluejo.demon.oc.ku John Baguley jcb.AT.OR.NEAR.avism.demon.oc.ku John Robinson john.AT.OR.NEAR.thebeard.demon.oc.ku John Stockton jrs.AT.OR.NEAR.merlyn.demon.oc.ku Jonathan Wheeler j.f.wheeler.AT.OR.NEAR.rl.ac.uk K Richard Whitbread richard.whitbread.AT.OR.NEAR.tesco.nte Kate L Pugh kake.AT.OR.NEAR.ox.mocpsoc.nte Kevin Andreoli kevin.andreoli.AT.OR.NEAR.ukgateway.nte Luke Bosman lukebosman.AT.OR.NEAR.argonet.oc.ku Malcolm Mladenovic mbm.AT.OR.NEAR.acm.org Marc Donovan donovan.AT.OR.NEAR.dial.pipex.moc Mark Goodge mark.AT.OR.NEAR.good-stuff.oc.ku Mark Tyndall mrt102.AT.OR.NEAR.york.ac.uk Matt Kiessling mgk.AT.OR.NEAR.ecs.soton.ac.uk Mike Fleming mike.AT.OR.NEAR.tauzero.demon.oc.ku Mike Henry mike.AT.OR.NEAR.tw2.moc Molly Mockford molly.AT.OR.NEAR.orbs.demon.oc.ku Neil Fernandez ncf.AT.OR.NEAR.borve.demon.oc.ku Niall niallcw.AT.OR.NEAR.btinternet.moc Nick Atty nick.AT.OR.NEAR.nandj.freeserve.oc.ku Nick Regan nick.AT.OR.NEAR.regan123.freeuk.moc Nigel Ashton nigel.AT.OR.NEAR.ashton.demon.oc.ku Nigel Cliffe ncliffe.AT.OR.NEAR.btinternet.moc Paul Bolchover pb10003.AT.OR.NEAR.cus.cam.ac.uk Paul Carpenter paul.AT.OR.NEAR.pcserv.demon.oc.ku Paul Leake p.j.leake.AT.OR.NEAR.durham.ac.uk Paul Martin paul.martin.AT.OR.NEAR.nuffield.ox.ac.uk Paul Womar vote.AT.OR.NEAR.pwomar.demon.oc.ku Pekka P. Pirinen ppp.AT.OR.NEAR.pirinen.demon.oc.ku Pete Humble peet.AT.OR.NEAR.dircon.oc.ku Peter Corlett abuse.AT.OR.NEAR.verrine.demon.oc.ku Peter Munn pmunnsub.AT.OR.NEAR.pearce-neptune.demon.oc.ku Phil Clark phil.AT.OR.NEAR.saxmund.demon.oc.ku Phil Wade philwade.AT.OR.NEAR.bigfoot.moc Philip Powell philip.AT.OR.NEAR.blencathra.demon.oc.ku Raven raven.AT.OR.NEAR.arpeggio.demon.oc.ku Rex M F Smith sumisu.AT.OR.NEAR.gehena.demon.oc.ku Richard Ashton {r}.AT.OR.NEAR.sunshine.tm Richard Clayton richard.AT.OR.NEAR.turnpike.moc Richard Tibbetts richard.AT.OR.NEAR.primepeace.ltd.uk Roger Haynes roger.AT.OR.NEAR.haynes.screaming.nte Roy Stilling rpjs.AT.OR.NEAR.kalevala.demon.oc.ku S.W.F. Borthwick swfb.AT.OR.NEAR.bokop.win-uk.nte Sarah Reeson sarah.AT.OR.NEAR.gubbins.nte Simon Gray simon.AT.OR.NEAR.star-one.org.uk Six six.AT.OR.NEAR.screamingeagle.in2home.nte Squire squireb.AT.OR.NEAR.bryhod99.demon.oc.ku Steve Dodd dirk.AT.OR.NEAR.loth.demon.oc.ku Steve Lewin steve.lewin.AT.OR.NEAR.icl.moc Steve Wright steve.AT.OR.NEAR.wrightnet.demon.oc.ku Susan Ashton susan.AT.OR.NEAR.ashton.demon.oc.ku Thomas Lee tfl.AT.OR.NEAR.psp.oc.ku Toby Speight toby.speight.AT.OR.NEAR.streapadair.freeserve.oc.ku Tony tony.AT.OR.NEAR.tagman.demon.oc.ku Tony Towers tony.AT.OR.NEAR.cats.tele2.oc.ku Tony Walton tony.walton.AT.OR.NEAR.sun.moc V Hampson vhampson.AT.OR.NEAR.netcomuk.oc.ku Status Quo --------\ Re-Open Discussion -------\| Option 4 ------\|| Option 3 -----\||| Option 2 ----\|||| Option 1 ---\||||| |||||| Name |||||| Preference Aaron Fuller 222122 4 > 1 = 2 = 3 = ROD = SQ Al Menzies 631254 3 > 4 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 1 Alan Fleming 14AA32 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 3 = 4 Alan Rawlings 124443 1 > 2 > SQ > 3 = 4 = ROD Alex D. Baxter 145632 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 3 > 4 Alex Dawson 222231 SQ > 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 > ROD Alex Foster AA1AAA 3 > 1 = 2 = 4 = ROD = SQ Alex Holden 166632 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 = 3 = 4 Andrew Gierth 125543 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 3 = 4 Andrew MacGregor 125643 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 3 > 4 Andrew Wineberg 625431 SQ > 2 > ROD > 4 > 3 > 1 Andy Mabbett 1AAA23 1 > ROD > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 Andy Roberts A2113A 3 = 4 > 2 > ROD > 1 = SQ Andy Walker 126543 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 4 > 3 Anthony Gold 125543 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 3 = 4 Arwel Parry 125543 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 3 = 4 Bill 234561 SQ > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > ROD Bill Hay 164532 1 > SQ > ROD > 3 > 4 > 2 Blade Runner 514236 2 > 4 > ROD > 3 > 1 > SQ Brian McCauley 12AA43 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 3 = 4 Charles F Hankel A2A13A 4 > 2 > ROD > 1 > 3 > SQ Charles Lindsey 162354 1 > 3 > 4 > SQ > ROD > 2 Chris Croughton 1AAA32 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 = 3 = 4 Chris Keen AAAAA1 SQ > 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = ROD Claire Speed 134256 1 > 4 > 2 > 3 > ROD > SQ Conor O'Neill 146532 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 4 > 3 Dave Mayall 145523 1 > ROD > SQ > 2 > 3 = 4 Dave Sparks A13245 2 > 4 > 3 > ROD > SQ > 1 David 3312AA 3 > 4 > 1 = 2 > ROD = SQ David Cantrell 125534 1 > 2 > ROD > SQ > 3 = 4 David Clapham 144432 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 = 3 = 4 David Damerell 165432 1 > SQ > ROD > 4 > 3 > 2 Denis F 123465 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > SQ > ROD Denis McMahon 144432 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 = 3 = 4 Doug Weller 133342 1 > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 > ROD Duncan Dewar 145632 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 3 > 4 E. J. Jewell 12AA43 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 3 = 4 Ellen Mizzell 4321AA 4 > 3 > 2 > 1 > ROD = SQ Gareth J Dykes 165432 1 > SQ > ROD > 4 > 3 > 2 Gary Jones 124365 1 > 2 > 4 > 3 > SQ > ROD Glenys Pople 165432 1 > SQ > ROD > 4 > 3 > 2 Graham Willmott AA3124 4 > ROD > 3 > SQ > 1 = 2 Helge Nareid 134562 1 > SQ > 2 > 3 > 4 > ROD Hugh Simmons 156342 1 > SQ > 4 > ROD > 2 > 3 Iain 155324 1 > ROD > 4 > SQ > 2 = 3 Iain Bowen 1532A4 1 > 4 > 3 > SQ > 2 > ROD Iain Rae 142434 1 > 3 > ROD > 2 = 4 = SQ James Coupe 164532 1 > SQ > ROD > 3 > 4 > 2 James Farrar 144423 1 > ROD > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 Jane Vernon AA1AAA 3 > 1 = 2 = 4 = ROD = SQ Jason Waghorn 142365 1 > 3 > 4 > 2 > SQ > ROD Jezza 413256 2 > 4 > 3 > 1 > ROD > SQ Jim Hill 631245 3 > 4 > 2 > ROD > SQ > 1 Jo Walton 144352 1 > SQ > 4 > 2 = 3 > ROD John Baguley 145632 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 3 > 4 John Robinson 145523 1 > ROD > SQ > 2 > 3 = 4 John Stockton 144423 1 > ROD > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 Jonathan Wheeler 631254 3 > 4 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 1 K Richard Whitbread AA11AA 3 = 4 > 1 = 2 = ROD = SQ Kate L Pugh 134423 1 > ROD > 2 = SQ > 3 = 4 Kevin Andreoli 125543 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 3 = 4 Luke Bosman 1AAAAA 1 > 2 = 3 = 4 = ROD = SQ Malcolm Mladenovic AAAAAA 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = ROD = SQ Marc Donovan 1423AA 1 > 3 > 4 > 2 > ROD = SQ Mark Goodge 142365 1 > 3 > 4 > 2 > SQ > ROD Mark Tyndall 632154 4 > 3 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 1 Matt Kiessling 641235 3 > 4 > ROD > 2 > SQ > 1 Mike Fleming 14AA32 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 3 = 4 Mike Henry 133342 1 > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 > ROD Molly Mockford 1AAAAA 1 > 2 = 3 = 4 = ROD = SQ Neil Fernandez AAAAAA 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = ROD = SQ Niall A3124A 3 > 4 > 2 > ROD > 1 = SQ Nick Atty 532164 4 > 3 > 2 > SQ > 1 > ROD Nick Regan 146532 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 4 > 3 Nigel Ashton 23AA41 SQ > 1 > 2 > ROD > 3 = 4 Nigel Cliffe 155562 1 > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 > ROD Paul Bolchover 125463 1 > 2 > SQ > 4 > 3 > ROD Paul Carpenter 166623 1 > ROD > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 Paul Leake 532145 4 > 3 > 2 > ROD > 1 = SQ Paul Martin 145632 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 3 > 4 Paul Womar 146532 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 4 > 3 Pekka P. Pirinen 143542 1 > SQ > 3 > 2 = ROD > 4 Pete Humble 124432 1 > 2 = SQ > ROD > 3 = 4 Peter Corlett 1AAAA2 1 > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 = ROD Peter Munn 145532 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 3 = 4 Phil Clark 361254 3 > 4 > 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 Phil Wade 154362 1 > SQ > 4 > 3 > 2 > ROD Philip Powell 165432 1 > SQ > ROD > 4 > 3 > 2 Raven 166632 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 = 3 = 4 Rex M F Smith 155362 1 > SQ > 4 > 2 = 3 > ROD Richard Ashton 1AAAA2 1 > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 = ROD Richard Clayton 134452 1 > SQ > 2 > 3 = 4 > ROD Richard Tibbetts A312AA 3 > 4 > 2 > 1 = ROD = SQ Roger Haynes 134562 1 > SQ > 2 > 3 > 4 > ROD Roy Stilling 133332 1 > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 = ROD S.W.F. Borthwick 166632 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 = 3 = 4 Sarah Reeson 124365 1 > 2 > 4 > 3 > SQ > ROD Simon Gray 12AA43 1 > 2 > SQ > ROD > 3 = 4 Six A1AA2A 2 > ROD > 1 = 3 = 4 = SQ Squire 144432 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 = 3 = 4 Steve Dodd 123241 1 = SQ > 2 = 4 > 3 > ROD Steve Lewin 154362 1 > SQ > 4 > 3 > 2 > ROD Steve Wright 162354 1 > 3 > 4 > SQ > ROD > 2 Susan Ashton 136542 1 > SQ > 2 > ROD > 4 > 3 Thomas Lee 145632 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 > 3 > 4 Toby Speight 154263 1 > 4 > SQ > 3 > 2 > ROD Tony 144423 1 > ROD > SQ > 2 = 3 = 4 Tony Towers 165432 1 > SQ > ROD > 4 > 3 > 2 Tony Walton AA12AA 3 > 4 > 1 = 2 = ROD = SQ V Hampson 144432 1 > SQ > ROD > 2 = 3 = 4 Notes: A = Abstain/No Preference, AAAAAA = Complete Abstention INVALID VOTES Devi devi@sdps.demon.co.uk ! Ack bounced - 550 (BHST) Unknown host/domain name Brett Dunbar brett@dimetron.demon.co.uk ! Ack bounced - 550 (BHST) Unknown host/domain name - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- VOTETAKERS COMMENTS: At 110 valid votes, this is the largest vote I've taken. Like the recent uk.politics.parties.libdem vote, there were problems with people not following the voting instructions properly and causing the vote checking script to reject votes which, apart from a lack of square brackets, were perfectly valid. The two votes listed as invalid above were rejected for two completely different reasons, despite these resulting in the same SMTP error code. The first was bounced as, IIRC, sdps.dcu is actually an alias for Demon's POP3 cluster and the second was bounced due to the voter spelling his address incorrectly on the ballot paper and it is that address, rather than any others, that is used for the voting address. The Condorcet count was reasonably easy for this vote, as Option 1 was the only one to beat the Status Quo so the Stage Two count was unnecessary. In addition, I kept all of the votes in an Excel spreadsheet so used two basic formulae to work out the preferences and totals. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting. UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on behalf of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties. The rules under which votes for the uk.* hierarchy are taken are posted regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL: The UKVoting web pages can be found at There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to control@usenet.org.uk. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RATIONALE: There has been much discussion in recent months in uk.net.news.config, and other places, over the suitability of proposed groups within uk.local.*. This amendment seeks to clarify the situation regarding future new groups within the uk.local.* hierarchy. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION: The RFD was posted on 21/6/1999 to uk.net.news.announce and uk.net.news.config. The discussion has generated more heat than light as it has become bogged down on one specific case rather than a general discussion of the basic principle involved - whether or not non-real locations should be allowed within uk.local.*. Eventually, three alternative wordings were suggested that would allow for non-real locations within uk.local.*. Two further suggestions were put forward to specifically exclude 'borsetshire' from the Charter restraints. However, the proponent has rejected these for three reasons: they appeared to originate from the same source; no other support was registered; the same arguments would arise for the next proposal for a non-real location. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EXISTING CHARTER: The hierarchy is for groups to discuss and announce local issues and events. It is expected that most groups will be created in the form: uk.local. or in the form: uk.local... is the area to be covered by the group (and can be used or extended as necessary). Messages posted to groups in this hierarchy must not be cross-posted to more than a TOTAL of four uk.local.* newsgroups; these may be geographically adjacent or overlapping, or connected by the subject of the post (e.g. "moving house from Manchester to Birmingham"). Note that the advertising of widely-available goods or services is *not* relevant in this context, and that most uk.local.* groups have restrictions on advertising, or prohibit it. Cross-posted adverts, where allowed, must meet the requirements of the charters of *all* groups involved. A paragraph to this effect, must be included in any future charter for a group in this hierarchy. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PROPOSED AMENDMENTS: OPTION 1 (Philip Powell): That the initial paragraph of the above Charter be replaced by the following: "The hierarchy is for groups to discuss issues and announce events related to recognised and identifiable locations and regions within the United Kingdom, or in territories closely associated with it. Groups will be created in the form: uk.local. or in the form: uk.local... is the area to be covered by the group (and can be used or extended as necessary). The shall be that which is in everyday usage or an alias that is commonly understood. Other, more suitable, hierarchies shall be used for fictional, imaginary or virtual locations." OPTION 2 (Blade Runner): "The hierarchy is for groups which discuss local areas with relevance to the UK. A qualifying local area must be able to demonstrate an established culture, identity, geographic location or any combination thereof." OPTION 3 (Mark Goodge): "The hierarchy is for groups to discuss issues and announce events related to recognised and identifiable locations and regions within the United Kingdom, or in territories closely associated with it. The shall be that which is in everyday usage or an alias that is commonly understood. The may be an actual geographical location, or a fictional place name (for example, as used in TV or radio drama)." OPTION 4 (David Damerell): "The hierarchy is for groups which discuss local areas with relevance to the UK. A qualifying local area must be able to demonstrate an established culture, identity, geographic location or any combination thereof. Groups discussing fictional or imaginary areas are not excluded, provided that those areas have a clearly UK-based culture and/or identity." Votetakers Note: David Damerell has requested that we point out that, whilst he proposed the text for this option, he does not support it over option 1 or Status Quo. - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AMENDED CHARTER: The hierarchy is for groups to discuss issues and announce events related to recognised and identifiable locations and regions within the United Kingdom, or in territories closely associated with it. Groups will be created in the form: uk.local. or in the form: uk.local... is the area to be covered by the group (and can be used or extended as necessary). The shall be that which is in everyday usage or an alias that is commonly understood. Other, more suitable, hierarchies shall be used for fictional, imaginary or virtual locations. Messages posted to groups in this hierarchy must not be cross-posted to more than a TOTAL of four uk.local.* newsgroups; these may be geographically adjacent or overlapping, or connected by the subject of the post (e.g. "moving house from Manchester to Birmingham"). Note that the advertising of widely-available goods or services is *not* relevant in this context, and that most uk.local.* groups have restrictions on advertising, or prohibit it. Cross-posted adverts, where allowed, must meet the requirements of the charters of *all* groups involved. A paragraph to this effect must be included in any future charter for a group in this hierarchy. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBN/HssmOfGXkh8vHZAQEJCgP9FFo1ETSMel/XRWTOKxbrtMd8J04puQAW Bn2U9AoN0VXBxkstsSIPJXessQ3lDAatTTFH+t3YVymfXdqFt7ShJhEPTMns63Ku B2FqX/Gph6P8wzv+JwtQc0hq3VXTsWvS3nVFoiDQgHWiZvLL+aRBe3FHNgGJN+Hr RYOFD6tBR8c= =ZA/q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----