28 Nov 1999: Amend Guidelines for Group Creation
From: Barry Salter <b.salter@ukvoting.org.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 12:11:23 GMT
Subject: RESULT : Amend Guidelines for Group Creation
Newsgroups: uk.net.news.announce,uk.net.news.config,uk.net.news.management
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RESULT OF CALL FOR VOTES
Title of CFV - Amend Guidelines for Group Creation
Proposal A PASSES 74:2
Proposal B FAILS 38:27
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Voting closed at 23:59:59 GMT, 20th November 1999.
Proponent: Dave Mayall <david.mayall@ukonline.co.uk>
Primary Votetaker: Barry Salter <b.salter@ukvoting.org.uk>
Secondary Votetaker: Malcolm Mladenovic <voting@mort.demon.co.uk>
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Distribution:
uk.net.news.announce, uk.net.news.config, uk.net.news.management
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The Results:
The results follow below in the following order:
1) Results
2) Particulars of the Vote
3) Votetakers Comments
4) Voting and Appeal Guidelines
5) Rationale & Proposed Changes
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
RESULTS:
Proposal A - Committee Right to require a vote or withdrawal of an RFD
within 40 days once 90 days have elapsed since publication of 1st RFD.
YES = 74 votes
NO = 2 votes
ABSTAIN = 1 votes
TOTAL = 77 votes
There were 72 more YES votes than NO votes. This is more than the +12
majority required to beat the Status Quo. Accordingly Proposal A
PASSES.
Proposal B - Automatic Guillotine after 130 days where an RFD concerns
the Constitution of the Committee.
YES = 38 votes
NO = 27 votes
ABSTAIN = 11 votes
TOTAL = 77 votes
There were 11 more YES votes than NO votes. This is LESS than the +12
majority required to beat the Status Quo. Accordingly Proposal B FAILS.
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PARTICULARS OF THE VOTE:
Amend Guidelines for Group Creation Final Vote Ack
Proposal A : Committee Right to require a vote or withdrawal of an RFD
within 40 days once 90 days have elapsed since publication of 1st RFD.
Voted Yes - 74 votes
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
$simon$~!~star-one.rgo.yookay (Simon Gray)
abuse~!~verrine.demon.oc.yookay (Peter Corlett)
alaric~!~harlech.demon.oc.yookay (Iain Bowen)
alex-news~!~oenone.demon.oc.yookay (Alex D. Baxter)
alex~!~alexh.clara.oc.yookay (Alex Holden)
arwel~!~cartref.demon.oc.yookay (Arwel Parry)
aw1~!~stade.oc.yookay (Adrian Wontroba)
barryd~!~bann.oc.yookay (Barry Dorrans)
bill~!~billybubbles.demon.oc.yookay (Bill)
brett~!~dimetrodon.demon.oc.yookay (Brett Paul Dunbar)
broonie~!~tardis.ed.ca.yookay (Mark Brown)
charles~!~hankel.mersinet.oc.yookay (Charles F Hankel)
chasm~!~ccl4.rgo (jAmES Royal-Lawson)
chl~!~clw.cs.man.ca.yookay (Charles Lindsey)
chris.isbell~!~breathemail.etn (Chris Isbell)
chris~!~keris.demon.oc.yookay (Chris Croughton)
cj~!~moodog.demon.oc.yookay (Chris Bannister)
clive~!~cmartin.demon.oc.yookay (Clive Martin)
cudce~!~csv.warwick.ca.yookay (Jon Harley)
d.hillam~!~btinternet.omc (Dave Hillam)
damerell~!~chiark.greenend.rgo.yookay (David Damerell)
darren~!~meldrum.oc.yookay (Darren Meldrum)
david.mayall~!~ukonline.oc.yookay (Dave Mayall)
david~!~wood2.demon.oc.yookay (David Wood)
denis~!~pickaxe.demon.oc.yookay (Denis McMahon)
draenog~!~yon-net.demon.oc.yookay (draenog)
duncan~!~brandane.demon.oc.yookay (Duncan Dewar)
eaking~!~ulape.demon.oc.yookay (Edward King)
fredb~!~frolix8.demon.oc.yookay (Fred Barber)
graham~!~tyndale.demon.oc.yookay (Graham Nye)
huge~!~axalotl.demon.oc.yookay (Huge)
I.M.Kitching~!~anglia.ca.yookay (Ian Kitching)
ijackson~!~chiark.greenend.rgo.yookay (Ian Jackson)
james~!~sfgiants22.freeserve.oc.yookay (James Farrar)
jas~!~jmkemp.demon.oc.yookay (James Kemp)
jcb~!~avism.demon.oc.yookay (John B)
jezza~!~hotwells.freeserve.oc.yookay (Jezza)
john~!~thebeard.demon.oc.yookay (John Robinson)
jrs~!~merlyn.demon.oc.yookay (Dr John Stockton)
kevin.andreoli~!~ukgateway.etn (Kevin Andreoli)
livia~!~wheelwright.etn (Livia Mitson)
lyn~!~stuffing.demon.oc.yookay (Lyn David Thomas)
mike~!~gtnorthern.demon.oc.yookay (Mike Newman)
mike~!~tauzero.oc.yookay (Mike Fleming)
mike~!~urgle.omc (Mike Bristow)
mlush~!~hgmp.mrc.ca.yookay (Mr. M.J. Lush)
molly~!~orbs.demon.oc.yookay (Molly Mockford)
mrt102~!~york.ca.yookay (Mark Tyndall)
nick~!~nregan.oc.yookay (Nick Regan)
nigle~!~ukonline.oc.yookay (Nigel Worsley)
paul.martin~!~nuffield.oxford.ca.yookay (Paul Martin)
pb10003~!~cus.cam.ca.yookay (Paul Bolchover)
peet~!~dircon.oc.yookay (Pete Humble)
penny~!~labyrinth.freeuk.omc (Penny)
peteralf~!~softhome.etn (Peter Alfredsen)
phil~!~saxmund.demon.oc.yookay (Phil Clark)
philip~!~blencathra.demon.oc.yookay (Philip Powell)
pmh~!~btinternet.omc (Paul Hutchinson)
r.c.craven~!~btinternet.omc (Dick Craven)
richard-vote~!~illuin.demon.oc.yookay (Richard Letts)
richard~!~turnpike.omc (Richard Clayton)
ricka~!~globalnet.oc.yookay (Rick Ansell)
robbie~!~arrakis.un (robbie)
six~!~screamingeagle.in2home.oc.yookay (Six)
steve~!~grinning-cat.oc.yookay (Stephen Baird)
steve~!~wrightnet.demon.oc.yookay (Steve Wright)
swfb~!~bokop.win-uk.etn (S.W.F. Borthwick)
swinny~!~cix.compulink.oc.yookay (Robert Felton)
tez~!~pierrot.oc.yookay (Tez Boyes)
tfl~!~psp.oc.yookay (Thomas Lee)
tgold~!~panix.omc (Anthony R. Gold)
tmf~!~ecs.soton.ca.yookay (Tim Forcer)
tony~!~cats.tele2.oc.yookay (Tony Towers)
{R}~!~sunshine.mt (Richard Ashton)
Voted No - 2 votes
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
chris~!~dickson.demon.oc.yookay (Chris M. Dickson)
merlin~!~netlink.oc.yookay (Darren Wyn Rees)
Abstained - 1 vote
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dave.sparks~!~sisyphus.demon.oc.yookay (Dave Sparks)
- ------------------------------
Proposal B : Automatic Guillotine after 130 days where an RFD concerns
the Constitution of the Committee.
Amend Guidelines for Group Creation Final Vote Ack
Voted Yes - 38 votes
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
$simon$~!~star-one.rgo.yookay (Simon Gray)
alaric~!~harlech.demon.oc.yookay (Iain Bowen)
alex-news~!~oenone.demon.oc.yookay (Alex D. Baxter)
arwel~!~cartref.demon.oc.yookay (Arwel Parry)
aw1~!~stade.oc.yookay (Adrian Wontroba)
barryd~!~bann.oc.yookay (Barry Dorrans)
chris~!~keris.demon.oc.yookay (Chris Croughton)
cj~!~moodog.demon.oc.yookay (Chris Bannister)
clive~!~cmartin.demon.oc.yookay (Clive Martin)
denis~!~pickaxe.demon.oc.yookay (Denis McMahon)
draenog~!~yon-net.demon.oc.yookay (draenog)
duncan~!~brandane.demon.oc.yookay (Duncan Dewar)
eaking~!~ulape.demon.oc.yookay (Edward King)
graham~!~tyndale.demon.oc.yookay (Graham Nye)
huge~!~axalotl.demon.oc.yookay (Huge)
I.M.Kitching~!~anglia.ca.yookay (Ian Kitching)
jas~!~jmkemp.demon.oc.yookay (James Kemp)
jcb~!~avism.demon.oc.yookay (John B)
jezza~!~hotwells.freeserve.oc.yookay (Jezza)
jrs~!~merlyn.demon.oc.yookay (Dr John Stockton)
mike~!~gtnorthern.demon.oc.yookay (Mike Newman)
mike~!~tauzero.oc.yookay (Mike Fleming)
paul.martin~!~nuffield.oxford.ca.yookay (Paul Martin)
peet~!~dircon.oc.yookay (Pete Humble)
penny~!~labyrinth.freeuk.omc (Penny)
peteralf~!~softhome.etn (Peter Alfredsen)
phil~!~saxmund.demon.oc.yookay (Phil Clark)
pmh~!~btinternet.omc (Paul Hutchinson)
r.c.craven~!~btinternet.omc (Dick Craven)
richard-vote~!~illuin.demon.oc.yookay (Richard Letts)
robbie~!~arrakis.un (robbie)
steve~!~grinning-cat.oc.yookay (Stephen Baird)
steve~!~wrightnet.demon.oc.yookay (Steve Wright)
swinny~!~cix.compulink.oc.yookay (Robert Felton)
tfl~!~psp.oc.yookay (Thomas Lee)
tgold~!~panix.omc (Anthony R. Gold)
tmf~!~ecs.soton.ca.yookay (Tim Forcer)
tony~!~cats.tele2.oc.yookay (Tony Towers)
Voted No - 27 votes
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abuse~!~verrine.demon.oc.yookay (Peter Corlett)
alex~!~alexh.clara.oc.yookay (Alex Holden)
bill~!~billybubbles.demon.oc.yookay (Bill)
brett~!~dimetrodon.demon.oc.yookay (Brett Paul Dunbar)
charles~!~hankel.mersinet.oc.yookay (Charles F Hankel)
chl~!~clw.cs.man.ca.yookay (Charles Lindsey)
chris.isbell~!~breathemail.etn (Chris Isbell)
chris~!~dickson.demon.oc.yookay (Chris M. Dickson)
cudce~!~csv.warwick.ca.yookay (Jon Harley)
d.hillam~!~btinternet.omc (Dave Hillam)
darren~!~meldrum.oc.yookay (Darren Meldrum)
david.mayall~!~ukonline.oc.yookay (Dave Mayall)
fredb~!~frolix8.demon.oc.yookay (Fred Barber)
ijackson~!~chiark.greenend.rgo.yookay (Ian Jackson)
john~!~thebeard.demon.oc.yookay (John Robinson)
kevin.andreoli~!~ukgateway.etn (Kevin Andreoli)
merlin~!~netlink.oc.yookay (Darren Wyn Rees)
mike~!~urgle.omc (Mike Bristow)
mlush~!~hgmp.mrc.ca.yookay (Mr. M.J. Lush)
nigle~!~ukonline.oc.yookay (Nigel Worsley)
pb10003~!~cus.cam.ca.yookay (Paul Bolchover)
philip~!~blencathra.demon.oc.yookay (Philip Powell)
richard~!~turnpike.omc (Richard Clayton)
ricka~!~globalnet.oc.yookay (Rick Ansell)
six~!~screamingeagle.in2home.oc.yookay (Six)
swfb~!~bokop.win-uk.etn (S.W.F. Borthwick)
{R}~!~sunshine.tm (Richard Ashton)
Abstained - 12 votes
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broonie~!~tardis.ed.ca.yookay (Mark Brown)
chasm~!~ccl4.rgo (jAmES Royal-Lawson)
damerell~!~chiark.greenend.rgo.yookay (David Damerell)
dave.sparks~!~sisyphus.demon.oc.yookay (Dave Sparks)
david~!~wood2.demon.oc.yookay (David Wood)
james~!~sfgiants22.freeserve.oc.yookay (James Farrar)
livia~!~wheelwright.etn (Livia Mitson)
lyn~!~stuffing.demon.oc.yookay (Lyn David Thomas)
molly~!~orbs.demon.oc.yookay (Molly Mockford)
mrt102~!~york.ca.yookay (Mark Tyndall)
nick~!~nregan.oc.yookay (Nick Regan)
tez~!~pierrot.oc.yookay (Tez Boyes)
Key:
Y = Yes, N = No, A = Abstain
Disalllowed Votes:
paul~!~xebon.clara.oc.yookay (Paul)
! Vote received after the deadline
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Votetakers Comments:
Apart from a few initial teething problems with the autoresponders,
people using spamblocked addresses or sending the Ballot Paper request
to the wrong address, the vote ran reasonably smoothly with no votes
rejected due to voters omitting their name/address from the ballot
paper. Hardly surprising considering they were all filled in by the
mail server when the ballot requests were received.
Overall, I'm pleased with the performance of the ballot by autoresponder
system, although it does have the disadvantage of having to send out a
complete "CFV" to each voter, but this is outweighed by the advantage
of having names and addresses pre-completed so all the voter has to do
is enter their vote in the spaces provided.
Unfortunately, one person submitted their vote after the deadline and a
further eight requested a ballot paper but failed to return it in time.
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This vote was conducted by a neutral third party member of UKVoting.
UKVoting is a group of independent votetakers who count votes on behalf
of the uk.* hierarchy and other 3rd parties.
The rules under which votes for the uk.* hierarchy are taken are posted
regularly to uk.net.news.announce or can be found at the following URL:
<ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet/news-info/news.answers/uk/voting>
The UKVoting web pages can be found at <http://www.ukvoting.org.uk/>
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted to
uk.net.news.announce. Allegations of irregularity should be sent to
control@usenet.org.uk.
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RATIONALE
- ---------
There have been a small number of recent cases where
RFDs have been proposed which are then continued by the
proponent through many additional RFDs, to the exclusion
of RFDs which others might wish to issue.
Whilst there are certainly cases where the complexity of
the proposal requires many RFDs, there are equally others
where the process is prolonged by the proponent for their
own reasons.
This proposal seeks to grant the committee a new power to
guillotine RFDs which have already been under discussion for
3 months, whilst allowing them to use their judgement as to
whether an RFD should be permitted more time.
It is hoped that this proposal will curtail the problem of
"hostile" proponents seeking to lock out RFDs.
In response to requests and following a straw poll, an *option*
will be included which will require the committee to guillotine
RFDs concerning itself after 130 days. The option to force a
guillotine after 90 days was very poorly supported, and has not
been included.
Paragraph 3 of the guidelines currently reads;
Discussion shall take place in uk.net.news.config and shall
continue initially for 10 days, and thereafter as required
until consensus is reached, or at least the important issues
have been identified. It should be concerned with finding the
final form of the Name, Charter, and other items listed above.
Additional RFDs should be issued if substantive changes arise
during the discussion. Revised RFDs should be discussed for a
further initial 10 day period.
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SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION
- ---------------------
Whilst the 1st and 2nd RFDs produced a great deal of discussion,
there was little response to the 3rd RFD, which would seem
to indicate that most issues have been addressed, and that
it is time to move to a vote.
The concept of a guillotine was generally welcomed, with the
reservation that such guillotines should be capable of being
overturned by "ROD". This amendment was made. Some people
felt that the guillotine should be automatic, with positive
committee action required to extend any RFD. The proponent
does not accept that this would have any effect beyond making
more work for the committee.
A number of people also felt that the guillotine should be
automatic for committee RFDs, although in a Straw Poll, there
was little support for an absolute guillotine on such votes.
There was a sizeable minority in favour of imposing an upper
limit to the committee's discretion over such RFDs. The option
of limiting this discretion, which the proponent does not
favour, is included as proposal B
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PROPOSED AMENDMENTS
- -------------------
PROPOSAL A:
Add the following text to the end of Paragraph 3;
"Where 90 days have elapsed since the publication of the first
RFD, the committee may direct that no further RFDs shall be
published, but that the proposal shall either proceed to a vote
within 40 days of the present RFD or be withdrawn. Any vote
resulting from such a decision by the committee shall include
the option ROD (re-open discussion)."
PROPOSAL B:
Add the following text to the end of Paragraph 3, after the text
inserted by proposal A;
"Where the RFD is concerned with the committee constitution, and
the committee has not acted to curtail discussion within 130
days, the RFD shall proceed as if the committee had done so."
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